Screwing 135

[AZ Typed]

As a former ALPA dues paying member, union supporter, and ALPA volunteer - I am sickened at the thought of NJ calling me a scab. In the after-life (that's after furlough) I've found myself a new position close to home with better pay than my UNION job, decent benefits, better flying, newer equipment, and with a pay raise. The problem...it's a 135 outfit that NJ is going to label "scab".

So when I pick up my flight release with the customer listed as NJ - wtf do I do? Say "sorry boss...can't do it"? The point was brought up that the NJ pilot MADE THE DECISION ON THEIR OWN to fly for NJ when they were hired. Therefore they accepted the pay, benefits, etc. While that's no reason to NOT fight for more - is it fair to drag all the 135 guys who are SICK of unionized labor and its BS into your fire?

Is a union needed? You bet with a group the size of NJ. Did I believe 110% in my ALPA representiation at my former company? You bet! Are their pros and cons to UNIONS? You bet. Is it wrong for someone to chose to leave UNION labor for a position that is BETTER THAN THEIR FORMER UNIONIZED LABOR POSITION?

I could've worked for Mesaba, Air Willy, TSA, blah blah blah. I wouldn't make what I do at my small 135 deal. I wouldn't be home as much. I wouldn't have a chance to upgrade for years. I wouldn't be able to drive to work. But hey...I'd be in a UNION. And for some reason everybody thinks that the UNION position is better?

Now, do I have UNION protection if I bang a wing. Nope. Do I have UNION representation when the CP calls me in? Nope. Like I said...their are pros and cons.

I made the concious decision to leave UNIONIZED labor for a simpler life, better paying job, closer to home, with better opportunities. And now when my release lists NJ as the customer I'm going to be labeled for life...this makes no sense.

So what is the deal? How are the 135 guys/gals going to be "labeled"? What are you other 135 guys/gals doing to do when your release says NJ as your customer? Has anybody else realized that no matter what - we are all just labor and will always be treated as such? Fight for more...but realized that in the end nobody really cares that we know how to bring back a SE iced up broken down bird at night in the mountains with someone's family on board...

...thoughts appreciated & this isn't meant to start a war...

 

[Live4flyng]

Relax Top Gun, no one is going to label you a SCAB. Do what you gotta do, just don't hop in the front seat of a QS airplane when a strike is on and you will be fine.

To be perfectly honest with you, there isn't enough quality charter companies out there to cover all of Netjets flights in the event of a strike. Owners won't put up with it anyway.

 

[AZ Typed]

Relax Top Gun, no one is going to label you a SCAB. Do what you gotta do, just don't hop in the front seat of a QS airplane when a strike is on and you will be fine.

To be perfectly honest with you, there isn't enough quality charter companies out there to cover all of Netjets flights in the event of a strike. Owners won't put up with it anyway.

Well you bet I won't be in any QS ship. But "doing what I gotta do" is difficult when it may involve screwing the profession and the union positions I agree with. On the same note - we all have mortgages and car payments... If staying out of a QS ship will keep me clean. Done. However if accepting NJ customer releases for my flights "labels" me...I'll have to really make some tough decisons that I don't want to have to make. (and I'm sure all the 135 guys who understand what I'm talking about don't want to have to make either - the young ones out there just don't know any better and you can't fault them for that).

why do we do this...

 

[AA717driver]

AZ--Nothing's going to label you. This is some hotheads taking this to the extreme. Just like everything else involving unions, the rhetoric melts away and the reality is in the middle.

NJA won't have to come to a strike. I believe the company is just dragging its feet to get cheap labor as long as it can. Notice no one is even talking about retro pay? If I had a dime for every time I heard the phrase "retro pay" I would have made enough money to cover the retro pay I should have gotten but never did.

With a 80%+ vote against the previous TA and the NJA pilots dumping their MEC and threatening to dump the IBT there's no way the management would take a chance that sentiment would turn around and another crappy TA would pass. JMO.TC

 

[Rattler71]

Many years ago when UPS pilots went on strike, they were going to all the feeder ramps and trying to get the 135 guys(not UPS employed) to not fly their regular UPS routes.
They were threatening us, calling us scabs, saying they would never get hired by UPS. When that happened to me I asked the idiot if their union was going to pay my mortgage and car note if I didn't fly(since I would be fired with no protection). Probably a lot of those guys fly for UPS now. I guess the point is the label of scab can be taken to far.

Rattler71

 

[pilotyip]

You would no more be a scab than the UAL pilot who flew a EAL passenger during the 1989 EAL strike.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

Actually there has been guidance on this issue recently released to the pilot group. As long as you are NOT flying in a QS tail numbered airplane, you have no worries. As long as you aren't WORKING for NJA while the "group" is on strike, you have no worries. If you happen to pick up a trip to carry NJA owners on your companies airplane, you are not scabbing. Ex: Eastern on strike. All Eastern passengers go to the Delta counter. They ride Delta to their destination...the Delta crew is NOT scabbing. Everyone fly safe out there !

 

[goofyleftwich]

are the gulfstream and EJM crews honoring the strike?

 

[x402]

are the gulfstream and EJM crews honoring the strike?

NJI and EJM are separate companies, why would we care what they do, for now?

 

[goofyleftwich]

NJI and EJM are separate companies, why would we care what they do, for now?

I don't know anything about any of these companies, I thought you were all under the same umbrella? So back to my original question.

 

[x402]

I don't know anything about any of these companies, I thought you were all under the same umbrella? So back to my original question.

They won't be honoring any work action. For now the company is set up to play one group off the other. That, hopefully will change in the near future.

 

[ghostrider64]

No one will receive the SCAB label as long as they refuse to fly any aircraft that have an ending in QS....So don't worry....Besides Netjets will implode long before the strike ever comes....

It's very sad here after the latest slap in the face offer...

But with 91K rules our lives are much much better on the road than they have ever been....Feds finally got one right....Although it's creating havoc with the schedulers and company at large....

 

[CapnVegetto]

I work for one of the companies that flys NJ flights on 135. We do it all the time. Does that make me a scab? Nope. Do I care? Nope. So I'll never work at NJA. BIG F-ING DEAL. I don't want to work there anyway. Don't get me wrong, I don't look down on anybody or anything like that, it's just not for me. I know I wouldn't be happy there. So it's an empty threat in my book.

 

[Mach92]

I don't know anything about any of these companies, I thought you were all under the same umbrella? So back to my original question.

YES they are under the same unbrella. EJI and us EJA fly the same owners, the same contracts. I really don't know why people do not understand this. EJI was "born" from EJA not being able to come to any agreement with gulfstream at the time. RTS (Richard T Scamtulli) said fine screw the union and started EJI. Make no mistake WE are the same company. Walmart and Sam's club both owned by the same company thats us. The money pot is the same as is the OWNERS we fly. If they fly during a strike you figure it out. You think both pilot groups hate each other now just wait.

 

[sweeper]

If the original question that was asked involved flying struck work, then the 135 operators would still be providing the same service as before a strike, and therefore not scabbing. The problem arises if a scheduled operator goes on strike and another airline comes in and flies the routes for that airline. Routes that are yours before the strike are ok to fly, but putting extra flights on the same routes shared with the on strike airline are not.

In the case of EJA and EJI, IMO EJI could keep flying as long as it did not start making up for flights on the EJA side. The only reason I responded to the post is that SCAB is a strong word in this industry and being labeled one incorrectly can hurt in the future.

 

[Yank McCobb]

The problem arises if a scheduled operator goes on strike and another airline comes in and flies the routes for that airline. Routes that are yours before the strike are ok to fly, but putting extra flights on the same routes shared with the on strike airline are not.

The only reason I responded to the post is that SCAB is a strong word in this industry and being labeled one incorrectly can hurt in the future.

Which is EXACTLY what you are doing with your example. Labeling incorrectly.

Based on your example, you seem to believe that if American goes on strike (they have flights from ORD to BFE) and UAL decides to increase THEIR schedule from 4 flights a day to 6 on that same ORD-BFE route, that now the UAL pilots are scabs?!?

Think again.

When EAL was on strike, plenty of US carriers increased flights on their routes. For example, Delta in the SE US and to Latin America. So, were the DAL pilots "scabbing"? Hardly.

If your are going to lecture people about throwing the "scab" word around, then get your facts straight.

 

[semperfido]

If they fly during a strike you figure it out. You think both pilot groups hate each other now just wait.

this is a sticky point that gives me indigestion- they (nji) don't want anything to do with you guys- leave them the f alone. they are happy doing their thing. i support your cause in so far as you should be better compensated. just not at their expense. they are not part of your union so of course they would fly. i am sure i will be flying some trips that would normally be flown by QS airplane, it doesn't make me a scab. i have a job to do and my loyalty is to myself and my family. i am not in your union. if i was i wouldn't fly but if they tell me to fly - i fly. i still support your cause.

 

[sweeper]

ok Yank...you got me....

But, how about in the case of a feeder airline that shares a route with a mainline carrier that is on strike adding flights in place of the mainline flights?

 

[DO-82 driver]

Semperfido....what you don't understand is that NJI, NJE and EJM are very much involved in what NJA does. The President of NJA already admitted during the last round of negotiations that NJA has subsidized those operations. They have been feeding off of us for a while now. Its funny, when you look at the cover page for the release for any NJI flight....it originates out of CMH......Its right there in black and white!!!!

 

[Majik]

EXACTLY!!!

When Boisture stands up at the company recurrent meetings and tells NJA pilots he can't afford to give us a raise, shows the charts that depict how much NJE and NJI are losing, then that is exactly the reason to bring them all in house. Especially if there is legal precedent to do so. If the only reason they are kept separate is so Santulli can move the profits to those parts of the company, at the expense of NJA pilot salaries, then to hell with that!

They fly our customers, they take our profit, and they are paid more, and have the priviledge to fly from home. Time for that crap to stop!