Scenic vs. Vision

[wt219200]

I need a little help with this one. I need to know if Vision is really as bad as everyone says it is on this forum. Mostly people who have flown there so I'm sure a lot of it is true. I want to fly for Scenic but they are just a mess right now. Dropping the 1900's, moving to BLD, and rumors of basing pilots at GCN. So Vision is sounding more and more better. Plus they fly the 228 and have two 328's with more coming. I am a CFI at VGT so I've heard all kinds of good and bad things about both places. The PFT thing is out of the question for Vision, they said that when I get 1000 total come talk to them and I won't have to. Who knows. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[JumpCaptain]

Who is vision? Never heard of 'em.

 

[wt219200]

Vision Air tours, they fly Dornier 228's and 328's out of North Las Vegas

 

[incognito]

• Vision is not part 121; Scenic is.
• Vision is PFT; Scenic is not.
• Vision does not have the positive reputation in the industry that Scenic does.
• Scenic is NOT going to base pilots in GCN.
• Scenic has made the choice to put its money in the tour side of the operation because that's where more money can be made. (If you doubt this, reseach the average profit, or lack thereof, per seat-mile at other airlines.)
• Scenic pilots easily and with monotonous regularity make the transition to other carriers: e.g, Alaska, America West, Continental Express, Horizon, Ryan International, Skywest, Southwest, etc.

To more clearly ID the reputation of either airline, search for both in these forums and the answer will be clear.

Plus, Scenic generally has happy pilots, which is hard to find in this industry.

 

[ootskdog]

Is Scenic still associated with Eagle Canyon Airlines? I worked for them many moons ago, not sure if they are still around, but I heard they merged with Scenic a while back.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

I flew for Scenic last year. It is a good job if the regional's aren't your thing or if you're low TT and know your stuff.
Vision contracts out the Dornier 328 and it's pilots (at least they did last year). Vision pilots flew the Dornier 228's and the Jetstreams, but not the 328's.
Vision FO's don't make much, but Vision captains make pretty good wages, $50,000+ and they fly a ton. If you plan on keeping the job for a few years, Vision might equal higher wages, but a lower quality of life.
Scenic has some changes happening, but they're not all happening at once and they aren't all happening right away. I wouldn't worry about them being a "mess", things are still pretty good there from what I hear from my old captain buddies.
If you're just looking to get some twin turbine time and then leave for a regional, don't forget that Scenic has a 1 year training contract. It is pro-rated quarterly. If you want to stay for the PIC time, Scenic has a quick upgrade once you get your ATP and you get 121 PIC time too.

Oh yeah, and yes, Scenic is affiliated with Eagle Canyon Airlines. In fact their business is Eagle Canyon Airlines dba. (doing business as) Scenic Airlines. I don't know the specifics, I think they operate on the old ECA certificate.

 

[incognito]

Fact Check

Scenic is not affiliated with Eagle Canyon Airlines; here's the short story:

• In 1998, the Yamagata Aviation Group owned Eagle Jet Charter (a 121 certificate) and Eagle Canyon Airlines (a 135 certificate). Eagle Canyon Airlines bought Scenic's 121 certificate and changed the name to Eagle Canyon Airlines dba Scenic Airlines. For a while, the company operated the two certificates--one with F-27s and B-1900s, the other with DHC-6s.
• In 2003, the Eagle Jet Charter certificate was sold; the F-27s went away; and the B-1900s moved to the Eagle Canyon certificate with the DHC-6s.
• In 2005, the name on the Eagle Canyon Airlines certificate was changed back to Scenic Airlines, Inc. dba Scenic Airlines.
• The certificate still operates B-1900s and DHC-6s under part 121. The certificate will remain 121 after the B-1900s go away, just as it was before their arrival.

Because of the nature of the industry, Scenic does have a training agreement, which is prorated quarterly over 12 months. That helps a small carrier recoup the thousands of dollars in training costs should someone decide simply to use the company as a résumé builder rather than a time and career builder. NO money is paid up front, and pilots earn their guarantee from day one in ground school.

Vision is PFT up front! (enough said)

 

[wt219200]

Pft

To clear a few things up. The assistant chief pilot told me the PFT thing is for very low timers. It is a contract to buy hours in the 228. I think 200 are guaranteed. Your job is not. They decide to hire you after your "intern" period or not hire you. Now if you get hired with around 1000TT no PFT. If it was all PFT then Vision would be out of the question. I've put too much time in instructing to just go buy a job. Plus I don't need to go $7,500 in more debt. That is what I've been told. Maybe a recent pilot from Vision can confirm this. Because I am not 100 percent on all of this. Thanks

 

[Peter Brady]

To clear a few things up. The assistant chief pilot told me the PFT thing is for very low timers. It is a contract to buy hours in the 228. I think 200 are guaranteed. Your job is not. They decide to hire you after your "intern" period or not hire you. Now if you get hired with around 1000TT no PFT. If it was all PFT then Vision would be out of the question. I've put too much time in instructing to just go buy a job. Plus I don't need to go $7,500 in more debt. That is what I've been told. Maybe a recent pilot from Vision can confirm this. Because I am not 100 percent on all of this. Thanks

You cleared it up.

Vision IS PFT.

 

[wt219200]

Do you or did you fly for them Mr. Brady?