Scenic vs. Vision

[mcjohn]

One thing that might be a factor regarding Gulfstream hiring off the street is they could be getting desperate to staff the planes when their PFT business is way down. I know Jet University has hurt their business and the internet levels the playing field as far as interested students learning what really goes on there and how they will be perpeptuating a bad company to stay bad and reap HUGE profits by not hiring and paying a qualified pilot to transport paying passengers. Of course getting hired off the street for Gulfstream is not PFT but it IS working for a company that chooses not to pay a large percentage of their pilots and would rather take their money instead.

 

[Hadhafang]

Scenic is starting to do the Canyon tours now. I think they just started on Monday. Someone mentioned before that they might be basing pilots out of GCN, but I think that if they do, it will be only temporary. I fly tours up here at the Canyon and have talked with several Scenic pilots, all of whom like there jobs. I also know some pilots that recently got hired at Vision, but I haven't talked to them in a while. They also had flown here at the Canyon and knew people in the company. For Scenic, since they have started the tours, Canyon time would be a huge plus on someone's resume. Although they do fly to different airports, they occassionally use the Twin Otter for what it was developed - short, unpaved runways. They frequently have flights to Monument Valley, which if anyone knows what that runway is like should be impressed. (I think Airnav has a picture.) So of the two, Vision is more of an airline and Scenic is an airline with also an emphasis on tours. Just depends on what you want. Anyway that's my two cents.

 

[USA_Av8r]

I used to work at Vision, the above statement is incorrect. Scenic does tours year round. The info that they started doing tours last week is incorrect. Here is the bottom line on both. If you want to fly 1000 hours in a turboprop in less than a year at a furious pace, while not having any time off then Vision is the way to go. Scenic is just as busy but you have a much better schedule. I am pretty sure you can bid for lines like an airline.
Life at Vision is much better than it used to be but if you go that route make sure you are ready to work at full steam.

 

[Formula1]

Once VIsion goes from being part 135 non-scheduled to part 135 scheduled for the DO-328 then they will have to give you a few extra days off. Maybe things will get a little better in the future.

From What I hear, you can upgrade as soon as you have the ATP minimums and you will accumulate your turbine PIC time very quickly just as someone else has previously mentioned. SO if you wanted to rack up alot of turbine PIC time quickly then this would probably be a good place. And no it is not pay for training for everyone.

 

[infiniti757]

The lowdown on Vision

I live here in Vegas and a very good friend just got hired by Vision. Here is the deal:

Vision is 121 and 135. The training and manual system as well as the supplemental operations to Phoenix are 121 approved. The operations to the Grand Canyon are 135 due to the type of A/C and size of the operations they do there.

The 135 operations are in the DO228s. The majority of flights are out to the Grand Canyon Airport and back. There are some air tours, and during summer rafting season they fly people into seversal dirt strips inside the canyon.

The 328s are operated under 135 and 121. They only go out to GCN under 135. In addition the fly to Phoenix as a 121 carrier under EAS. They are also going to add Palomar later in the year. They have Much bigger expansion plans for the 121 operation.

The fleet consist of 5 228s, and 2 328s. There are two more 328s going through compliance and they should be online in the next 2 or 3 months. In addition a deal for three 328JETs was inked in the last two weeks. These A/C should be online in the next 6-12 months. Vision has 5 or so 228s parked on the East side of the VVT airport that they are slowly putting online one by one. A sixth 228 is in the hangar and should be online by the end of the year. In addition to these planes they also have 2 737s in exec configuration flying around in Europe, and they Manage all of the aircraft for Roush Racing.

They don't have enough pilots on property to keep up with fleet growth so they are hiring like crazy. The class my friend was in had 13 pilots in it. The upgrade times will be very quick in the 228s. There is one seniority list and apparently they try to stick with it but they really need people so people with the right kind of experience can get Captain jobs off the street in both types. They are running another class right after the current one.

The QOL is OK they do work their guys hard but, it's because they are short pilots. Lots of guys are going to time out and get the last two months of the year off, and lots of them want it that way. The pay is OK, its better than what Scenic pays. Upgrade times are quick. You will work hard but, in my opinion a nice paycheck does a lot more for quality of life than anything else.

Getting hired sounds simple. Apparently there are three ways to go. If you have IFR 135 mins then you get hired based on merit. If you are low time then you might be offered the pilot development program which is basically pay for training and then they hire you if they like you ( I personally don't disrespect this as much as a larger company that just makes you pay to keep you around even if you have the time, if you want a job with 400 hours go flight instruct like the rest of us had to). Lastly Vision has deals with some European airlines where the airlines buy a certain amount of time for their pilots to build experience and then go back to work for their European airline. Of the class of 13 my friend was in, their were 2 Europeans, 1 pilot development person and the rest were guys with the time to fly. One guy was hired as 328 capt, 1 as 228 capt, one as 328 FO, 6 as Capt upgrades after about one month and the rest as FOs.

My friend says that management is very accessible and that they are all a good bunch of guys. For him it sounds like a good way to avoid the regionals and still get quality experience.

As far as Vision vs Scenic, it seems that they are both good companies with different merits. Sounds to me like Scenic is a time building place whereas Vision is a place you'd want to stay a little longer. My 2 cents.

 

[Hadhafang]

I used to work at Vision, the above statement is incorrect. Scenic does tours year round. The info that they started doing tours last week is incorrect. Here is the bottom line on both. If you want to fly 1000 hours in a turboprop in less than a year at a furious pace, while not having any time off then Vision is the way to go. Scenic is just as busy but you have a much better schedule. I am pretty sure you can bid for lines like an airline.
Life at Vision is much better than it used to be but if you go that route make sure you are ready to work at full steam.

Not to be disrespectful or anything, I work at the Canyon NOW and, yes, Scenic has started doing tours. They have been training their pilots on the SFAR routes for the last month. There were actually 2 people on Monday that had booked a Canyon tour with Scenic, but as they were the only two pax that had booked, Scenic gave them a Monument Valley tour instead. Scenic just does not have the passenger base to be doing the Canyon tours all day, yet. So, I don't know what information you have, but Scenic has just started doing the Canyon tours. Yes, they have done other tours for years, but it is the Canyon tours that are new for them. Hopefully, they will do a better job than GCA of flying the proper routes and making position reports.

 

[USA_Av8r]

Also, not to be disrepsectful but I really dont know what you mean by saying that. I worked at Vision over the last two years and once for a year in 1999. Scenic has always done canyon tours, they do it 365 days a year. Just as vision and GCA etc etc etc does.

 

[mcjohn]

infinity757, thanks for taking the time to provide all that info. That's what this place is all about. It really levels the playing feild. Thanks.

 

[Hadhafang]

Also, not to be disrepsectful but I really dont know what you mean by saying that. I worked at Vision over the last two years and once for a year in 1999. Scenic has always done canyon tours, they do it 365 days a year. Just as vision and GCA etc etc etc does.

OK, I work right across the hall from them and they just started doing the actual Black 1 and Black 1A routes over the Canyon. Those are the actual Canyon routes that the air tours fly. Vision does not do those Canyon tours. They do transition routes over the Canyon not the actual low level routes that are for tours. So, either you worked at Vision a long time ago or you have been given wrong information about Scenic.

 

[VAPOR]

Clarification...

Scenic has been flying Grand Canyon tours consistently since 1967. What Scenic recently started again is conducting Grand Canyon tours that originate at the Grand Canyon National Park Airport. As Grand Canyon Airlines and Scenic Airlines were previously the same airline, this is not "new". Scenic and Vision fly Canyon tours, usually originating in Las Vegas, other than the Black routes and the transition routes (i.e. Blue, Brown routes) and have been since the evolution of the SFRA.

 

[Hadhafang]

Scenic has been flying Grand Canyon tours consistently since 1967. What Scenic recently started again is conducting Grand Canyon tours that originate at the Grand Canyon National Park Airport. As Grand Canyon Airlines and Scenic Airlines were previously the same airline, this is not "new". Scenic and Vision fly Canyon tours, usually originating in Las Vegas, other than the Black routes and the transition routes (i.e. Blue, Brown routes) and have been since the evolution of the SFRA.

Thanks, that was what I was trying to say. Scenic has started the Black route, actually, they only fly the Black 1. This is the real tour of the Canyon, as it is right around large part of the Canyon and allows you to deal with the up and downdrafts. Flying over the Canyon at 10000 does not give you the same experience. These were the Canyon tours that I was talking about. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[jetpig32]

Thanks, that was what I was trying to say. Scenic has started the Black route, actually, they only fly the Black 1. This is the real tour of the Canyon, as it is right around large part of the Canyon and allows you to deal with the up and downdrafts. Flying over the Canyon at 10000 does not give you the same experience. These were the Canyon tours that I was talking about. Thanks for the clarification.

Scenic flys the most tours of any operator. Especialy west rim tours. They do it every day wx permitting. Perhaps some operations out of GCN are new.