Scenic Airlines

[Flyin Tony]

8 to 1. Place your bets at the Mandalay Bay Sports Book, and enjoy a corned Beef sandwich while you are there.

I wouldn't be 21

 

[CFIIer]

I interviewed way back in july of last year, and was offered a class date that last december, but it turned it down for a very well known 135 operator. Nothing tricky about the interview. 50 question ATP, interview with Chief Pilot and director of training, and a sim ride. It would have definately been a cool job, except I think that your instrument skills would have become a little weak from flying almost entirely VFR. Living in vegas would definately have beat where i'm sitting now, though.

 

[Jim]

except I think that your instrument skills would have become a little weak from flying almost entirely VFR.

I've had just under 60 hours of actual since 11/1/04 flying for Scenic. We fly IFR fairly often.

 

[paulsalem]

Jim,

How much flying is Canyon tours, and how much is flying from Point A to Point B?

 

[greyhound]

Is there a training agreement and time commitment once hired?

Thanks.....

 

[HMR]

I've had just under 60 hours of actual since 11/1/04 flying for Scenic. We fly IFR fairly often.

60hrs. in 4.5 months? That must be a record. My buddies in Vegas (especially the ones who flew the ditch) would need a decade to get that kind of IMC time. Heck, I spent 25+ days/month flying a BE-20 all over the western US and didn't get that much IMC time in a year.

 

[Jim]

60hrs. in 4.5 months? That must be a record. My buddies in Vegas (especially the ones who flew the ditch) would need a decade to get that kind of IMC time. Heck, I spent 25+ days/month flying a BE-20 all over the western US and didn't get that much IMC time in a year.

I agree it's more than usual but it's been a hell of a winter here in Vegas. Lake Mead has risen 13 feet since 1/1/2005 from all the storms (still has 84 feet to go to get back to normal). Further, Scenic is not just the ditch any more. You also have to remember also that the mighty Otter flies IFR between 10k and 12k - right in the middle of the crap. There is no climbing over it. To be exact, I have flown 687.1 revenue hours since 7/1/04 when I finished recurrent training at Scenic. Of this time, 71.6 was actual or 10.4% of my total. 56.4 hours of actual have been since 11/1/04. Of the remainder, 10 were in October and the remaining 5 spread between July to September.

We also have 3 B1900s and those guys get a lot more actual than the Otter pilots.

To be absolutely truthful, my first time at Scenic (5/99 to 7/01), I flew C207 strictly VFR for the first 7 months and the Otter for the remaining 19 months. I had 1472.3 hours in the Otter of which 49.5 were actual instrument (gotta love logbook pro). The difference? Scenic no longer has F27s and now flies to ELY and PMD as EAS routes in the Otter (the Otter also backs up the B1900s to MCE). Before, Otters were strictly canyon and when it was IFR, the F27s did 90% of the flying as they held 44 pax versus or average 15 Otter pax with IFR fuel. Further, we now continue canyon flying IFR where in the past we would cancel and rebook the pax for another day. The non-canyon flying EAS routes must go under the government rules unless the airport is below mins. The Scenic of today is not the VFR canyon tour company of the past.

How much flying is Canyon tours, and how much is flying from Point A to Point B?

Of the actual instrument time, probably about 40-60 with the 40% being point-to-point/non-canyon. I have done a lot of VGT-ELY trips and a couple of other destinations (PMD, MCE). However, Scenic does not mess around with scud running. If it's not clearly and legally VFR, we go IFR to the canyon.

Even when VFR canyon flying, there are plenty of opportunities to keep your instrument skills sharp. Tracking the GPS/CDI and holding altitude on a hot summer day over the canyon with all it's wind shifts and up/down drafts can be a challenge. Everytime you land on runway 3 at GCN, you can track the localizer and glidescope. If you can do this on a hot spring/summer VFR day with the constant windshear and varible/gusty crosswinds, you can easily do it IFR. It's when you fly lazy just because it's VFR that you lose your scan and instrument skills.

Is there a training agreement and time commitment once hired?

Yes, but I do not know the details. I am a "re-hire" Captain at Scenic and I was a unique situation. I know it is a 1 year agreement but not the amount. The training contract is necessary because Scenic pilots get hired rather quickly at other regionals when they apply due to their 121 turbine experience. We go through FOs very quickly and still would even if we paid FOs huge bucks. The FOs are all very happy when they initially get hired but the Otter quickly loses its shine when the FOs get "RJ eyes".

Before it's asked, I do not know the competative hiring minimums, FO pay rates, or average pay check amount. Minimums are on the website as well as an online application. I have flown with new hire FOs that had 600 total and some with 2500 total. Go to the pilot recruitment website at: http://www.scenicops.com/scenicpilot/index.htm

We have hired a bunch of FOs (30+) in the last couple of months and they are still interviewing. It's a good airline. Good pilot/management relations. Good maintenace. Good training. No second guessing pilot decisions concerning VFR/IFR, maintenance, weight & balance, etc. Scenic follows the rules and does not expect the pilots to break them. It can be a fairly quick route to turbine PIC or a stepping stone for low time guys looking for their first job.

 

[PlanetK]

I've always been curious what a monthly line at Scenic looks like. Also, are upgrades from f/o to cpt based on seniority like other airlines, or do street captains usually get the left seat? Thanks to anyone in advance for answering these questions.

PK

 

[Jim]

For the Twin Otters, we don't "traditional" lines per se. Instead we bid for days off. Most pilots work 5 on / 2 off but there are some 4 on / 3 off lines. Our daily schedule is determined the afternoon before. Most Otter pilots get 1 or 2 ovenights a month in either ELY or PMD. Your days off are hard days and you are not made to work them against your will. You might be called and asked to work but you can refuse. If you work, you get time and a half. Scenic would like to make 4 on / 3 off schedules available to all who want them, but we never seem to get enough pilots on the list. Everytime we get close, a bunch leave for RJs.....

I'm not sure how the B1900 schedule works or bids. I think they bid days off also but do it further in adavance (i.e. they know a couple of months worth vice Otters only knowing for the current month.

We try to upgrade based on seniority but with the many low time guys we hire it does not always work. The senior FO may not have the total time necesary for his ATP. We also have a couple of youngsters who are senior FOs but only 21 years old. Further, if management (via Captain and instructor feedback) does not feel a FO is Captain material, that FO will not upgrade. This very rarely happens. Any FO bypassed for any reason will keep his overall seniority.

Street Captains go to the bottom of the seniority list and any FO with a higher number is above them on the Captain's list when they upgrade. Unless the street Captain is a former Otter pilot, he will fly right seat for a while to learn the aircraft, routes, etc. These guys will upgrade out of senority as soon as management is comfortable with their Otter abilities. They could fly FO for a month or two or three ---- it depends on their progress, background, etc.

Scenic perfers to upgrade FOs to Captain vice hiring street Captains, but with our low hiring minimums there always seems to be a shortage.

 

[PlanetK]

Jim,
Thanks for the helpful answer. If I can talk my wife into moving, I think I' love it.

PK