Scary UAL Figures

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Here's the article:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/sddt/20040629/lo_sddt/aprayerand500millionmightsaveunited

It's dated Mon 6.28.

UAL owes $20 Billion to creditors (and another $4 Billion to the pension fund???). It has $2 Billion in cash.

At current market capitalization rates, the whole company could be purchased on the stock market for < $150 Million.

Cliff
DTW

 

[storminpilot]

Unfortunately this is a wounded dying animal.

I am sure management at Air Wisconsin, Skywest, Mesa, TranStates, Republic, Shuttle America and so on are wondering if Independence Air (ACA) was actually smarter than they were.

 

[Twotter76]

What, exactly did United ever do to you to make you hate them so much? In every post you make you take the opportunity to bash UAL and their pilot group. Speaking as one professional to another I would NEVER wish to see 7000 of my brother and sister pilots out on the street. And yet in every post you make you predict (wrongly) the demise of United. Are you angry that they are trying to protect what they fought so hard for? That they might have some backbone rather than just bending over like so many have done recently? But you are just "paying your dues" right? We should all give pay cuts and work at low cost carriers because thats the future, right?

Are you furloughed UAL? From your profile I dont even see where you have a dog in the fight unless you fly for Shuttle - look at mine - I fly a CRJ for Air Wisconsin - do you want me and my 850 other fellow pilots on our list to be out of work as well? What about Skywest, Chat, Trans States, and even Mesa. Will having all of these people out on the street improve your position? Would it make you feel better to say "I told you so"? What possible justification can you offer for this? Does it make me stupid that I chose to leave Independence because I thought the business model was fundamentally flawed and the last thing that was needed was another LCC? Your comment would certainly seem to indicate that you believe that, but I would beg to differ. But more importantly your opinions, whether based in fact or not, do matter to me.

Here is a thought for you - the next time you find yourself tempted to post another UAL bashing thread first consider the effect that a chapter 7 filing will have on all of those of us who work there, diectly or not, (not just pilots but gate agents, FA's, dispatchers, etc) and then instead perhaps you might offer intelligent thoughts on how to fix the situation and we could discuss your ideas like the adults I presume that most of us are.

I am the first to admit that the current system is flawed - I see it every day at ORD, but instead of whining about it I try to think about what I can do to help improve it. I understand that this concept of being proud of what you do might be a bit foreign to you, but I am proud to have United on the side of my airplane and to be associated with that fine group of individuals who have contributed so much to aviation. I am also proud of my regional airline and proud of the fact that I earned a job here - I can stay here 10 years and be happy - can you say the same?

Now if you would like to have an intelligent conversation about United's situation I would welcome your (and anyone else's) discourse on the problems facing United and prospective solutions to them. If you are convinced that UAL is going under then you are certainly entitled to that opinion but lets see you defend it with some factual information rather than snide remarks and misguided conjecture.

 

[Varmint]

What, exactly did United ever do to you to make you hate them so much? In every post you make you take the opportunity to bash UAL and their pilot group. Speaking as one professional to another I would NEVER wish to see 7000 of my brother and sister pilots out on the street. And yet in every post you make you predict (wrongly) the demise of United. Are you angry that they are trying to protect what they fought so hard for? That they might have some backbone rather than just bending over like so many have done recently? But you are just "paying your dues" right? We should all give pay cuts and work at low cost carriers because thats the future, right?

Where in any of the previous posts did anyone bash on UAL? I saw a guy post an article on UAL's cash/debt ratio and another guy give his opinion as to what he thinks is going to happen to UAL. Nobody bashed anyone or said anything negative about the company or its employees. UAL has some great guys working there and if the company folds it will be a sad day.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

OK, there needs to be some rules here!!!! No more posts with more than two paragraphs, Twotter you made me miss something on TV because I was reading you dam n post!!!

WD.
former awac driver.

 

[208starcheck]

I'll tell you what UAL did to me. They and every other Major (except SWA) RAPED us on fares, $1000, $1500, $2000 for a ticket. Now companies are out there to keep them honest, thank god. Funny how a fare is $2000 until a decent airline comes in and magically that fare falls to $250. That means they raped us all that time. I won't support them now. I know there are a lot of opinions out there, but that is mine.
The bottles are armed and the buttons flashing, so bring on the flame.

 

[FLB717]

ATPCliff,

I do not see that you did or said any thing wrong, you gave information.

208,

Dang boy, switch to De-Caf or stay away from sugar, wow! I felt the smack even on my side of the fence from that.

 

[becket]

If the market bears a 2000.00 dollar ticket then so be it. It's called Capitalism, not rape. Grow up and stop whining. Is it "fair" that lawyers make 500.00 dollars and hour? Is it "fair" that a tow truck charges 45.00 per mile for the first five mile? Answer, Yes. If somebody is willing to pay it, why not. Airlines are not charities or public utilities. You don't wanna pay two grand, then F.U. Walk.

 

[storminpilot]

What, exactly did United ever do to you to make you hate them so much? In every post you make you take the opportunity to bash UAL and their pilot group. Speaking as one professional to another I would NEVER wish to see 7000 of my brother and sister pilots out on the street. And yet in every post you make you predict (wrongly) the demise of United. Are you angry that they are trying to protect what they fought so hard for? That they might have some backbone rather than just bending over like so many have done recently? But you are just "paying your dues" right? We should all give pay cuts and work at low cost carriers because thats the future, right?

Are you furloughed UAL? From your profile I dont even see where you have a dog in the fight unless you fly for Shuttle - look at mine - I fly a CRJ for Air Wisconsin - do you want me and my 850 other fellow pilots on our list to be out of work as well? What about Skywest, Chat, Trans States, and even Mesa. Will having all of these people out on the street improve your position? Would it make you feel better to say "I told you so"? What possible justification can you offer for this? Does it make me stupid that I chose to leave Independence because I thought the business model was fundamentally flawed and the last thing that was needed was another LCC? Your comment would certainly seem to indicate that you believe that, but I would beg to differ. But more importantly your opinions, whether based in fact or not, do matter to me.

Here is a thought for you - the next time you find yourself tempted to post another UAL bashing thread first consider the effect that a chapter 7 filing will have on all of those of us who work there, diectly or not, (not just pilots but gate agents, FA's, dispatchers, etc) and then instead perhaps you might offer intelligent thoughts on how to fix the situation and we could discuss your ideas like the adults I presume that most of us are.

I am the first to admit that the current system is flawed - I see it every day at ORD, but instead of whining about it I try to think about what I can do to help improve it. I understand that this concept of being proud of what you do might be a bit foreign to you, but I am proud to have United on the side of my airplane and to be associated with that fine group of individuals who have contributed so much to aviation. I am also proud of my regional airline and proud of the fact that I earned a job here - I can stay here 10 years and be happy - can you say the same?

Now if you would like to have an intelligent conversation about United's situation I would welcome your (and anyone else's) discourse on the problems facing United and prospective solutions to them. If you are convinced that UAL is going under then you are certainly entitled to that opinion but lets see you defend it with some factual information rather than snide remarks and misguided conjecture.

I am not following where the "hate" speech is, if you were referring to my post. I don't remember "bashing" UAL or the pilot group.

UAL cannot be fixed in its current form. Both management and labor are to blame for the mess. Greed on both sides caused this problem.

As for Air Wisconsin.....Air Wisconsin came into this world independent and I believe they can go back and be very successful.

Our world is about to change VERY DRAMATICALLY over the next year. The airline business today is not going to look like it is now in a year.

 

[SpeedBird]

Whiskey:

Well you need to go out and buy a Tivo box ASAP. That will fix your problem!

 

[FatesPawn]

You don't wanna pay two grand, then F.U. Walk.

Ain't that the truth? Free market.

I often ask my non-aviation friends what they think the true value of transcontinental transportation at 600 miles per hour that is safer than taking a shower in your bathtub?

The problem is that the true value it isn't as high as was historically charged, but it is significantly more than $99. UAL and the other 800lb gorillas of the industry need to spend time getting their EXTERNAL costs under control. Without credit, they can't do things like hedge fuel so they turn to the soft underbellies of the unions. Big mistake. Unions always fight back for more when the time is right.

UAL needs to spend time figuring out where all the money is going. The need to take a hatchet to the operation and close things like their MEDICAL DEPARTMENT for god's sake. When I get hurt on the job, i go to the clinic down the street in the barrio. It ain't nice, but it sure is cheaper than keeping your own in-house medical staff on salary! There's crap like that spread all through United like a cancer. If they can't cut that fluff out before coming back to the unions for concessions they are fools.

Sincerely,

An Armchair quarterback

 

[Twotter76]

It occurs to me that in my anger I did not make it clear that that rant was directed largely at storminpilot and his habitual UAL bashing. Do a search of his previous posts to see what I mean. atpcliff indeed was only trying to provide information.

And I agree absoultely with the other posters that LCC's do not keep the legacy carriers "honest" - they simply create competition which like the partial monopoly that most carriers have in places throughout their route structure is a integral part of a free market economy. When there is no competition why in the world would any business (not just airlines) offer low prices unless there was another incentive for them to do so (loss leaders, etc)? Its just basic economics that a market deviod of competition will not have the same price elasticity that a competitive one does.

Sorry about missing the TV there WD - I second the motion to get a Tivo - those things are great!

 

[skykid]

Twotter, I think you are taking this a little too seriously, which is tough not to do when livelyhoods are at stake. The posters who are hoping United will go away for some kind of perceived personal gain have been at it for awhile and wrong in their wishful thinking time and again.




United Airlines Announces Start Date for New Nonstop Chicago-Shanghai Service
Tuesday June 29, 2:01 pm ET New Service Would Begin October 31, 2004 Daily Chicago-Shanghai Service Will Address Huge and Growing Demand for Access to China's Booming Financial Center

CHICAGO, June 29 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- United Airlines (OTC Bulletin Board: UALAQ - News) today announced that, following the conclusion of a new aviation agreement by the governments of the People's Republic of China and the United States, the airline has applied to begin new, daily nonstop service between Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD) and Shanghai's Pudong International Airport (PVG) effective October 31, 2004.

Service would commence on that date pending completion of the necessary regulatory procedures by the relevant Chinese and U.S. government agencies.

"Demand for nonstop service between the U.S. and China has grown exponentially during the past few years and continues to rise," said Graham Atkinson, United's senior vice president of Worldwide Sales and Alliances. "We are experiencing tremendous demand on our nonstop San Francisco-Shanghai flights -- where our planes have averaged more than 90 percent full in recent months -- and are eager to expand our service by providing additional options for travelers in the U.S. Midwest and East Coast. With more flights to and from Chicago than any other carrier, United is the best airline to provide new nonstop service between Chicago and Shanghai."

A recent report by the World Travel & Tourism Council states that China's business travel market is forecasted to grow 21.7 percent in 2004, while personal travel and tourism is forecasted to grow 22.4 percent. According to the International Air Transport Association (IATA), China is the second-fastest growing travel market in Asia, and is expected to realize an average 7.8 percent annual growth rate over the next 10 years.

"This new nonstop flight by United Airlines will not only bring the thousands of Chinese community members here in Chicago that much closer to their friends and family in Shanghai," says Jimmy Lee, executive director-Chicago Chinatown Chamber of Commerce, "it will also benefit the many Chicagoland and Midwest businesses who do business with that region and market."

United intends to operate combined passenger and cargo service using a Boeing 777 aircraft configured with 10 United First Suite® seats, 45 United Business® seats and 198 United Economy® class seats. Beginning in summer 2005, United plans to increase capacity to a Boeing 747-400 in order to meet projected demand in this expanding travel market. United currently is the only U.S. airline with nonstop service from the U.S. to China, with daily, nonstop flights between Chicago and Beijing, and San Francisco and Shanghai, as well as newly launched daily, nonstop service between San Francisco and Beijing. In April, the airline opened a sales office in Guangzhou, another city United is interested in serving in the future.

 

[climbhappy]

bought that cheap? 150 mil?

quote: they could be bought for 150 mil


is that a fact? common and preferred shares outstanding?

 

[Azul]

TwOtter:

Dude don't worry so much about what people on this board say. Of course there are quite a few people that want to see UAL tank. If they did then all the other companies would have to expand to fill the void. Hence more upgrades for them etc etc. In the end everyone is out for one person, THEMSELVES. You cannot blame them for this attitude. As a fellow AWAC pilot I too worry about United's future. But what people say on this board is really worthless. Last year everyone was "oh united is so screwd with SARS IRAQ" etc, and look there still here. And worse case scenario they do tank, we can all just apply at Home Depot be home every night and not have to worry about this cursed industry!

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Whiskey:

Well you need to go out and buy a Tivo box ASAP. That will fix your problem!

Yeah, you're right!!! I got all tied up in that long A$$ post and missed the segment that I was waiting for. Oh well maybe this is just the excuse I needed to go out and spend the money. I hope my wife buys why I need it!!!

WD.