Lazy8
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Scary flight (or airlines suck!)
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Tim47SIP
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Yell at me!
Worst flight ever for me was in 1985 on a C-141 with the first all female crew. Was a big deal. Two 1'st LT's up front and a butter bar on the panel. We went from Hill AFB to Elmendorf (sp?) AK en route to Japan. After 5 attempts to land, we finally made it on the runway, then off the runway, then on the runway, then to parking. The ground guys said that they thought we were sure to crash (which is why we had crash rescue standing by- the tower called them based on what they were seeing). The crew kept sliding the plane sideways on the runway (which was icy) and then had to go around to stay straight. 15-20 knt crosswind. Needless to say, we refused to let them take us the rest of the way, and the AF flew in a couple LTC's and a major. The rest of the trip was uneventful.
Second worse flight was with another all female crew on a Northwest DC-10 from SEA to HNL in 94. When the CPT announced the names of the three crew members, I stated "Oh NO" under my breath, but an English woman in the seat behind me had heard me and began to scold me. I apologized to her but told her that I have not had very good experiences with all female flight crews. Well the trip over went fairly well until the landing. We landed on Rwy 4R which is called the coral Rwy because it sticks out into the ocean for a good portion of it and the foundation was made out of old rock and dug up coral. It is somewhat difficult to land on if you don't focus on the runway and start looking at the water because you can loose some visual cues (motion parallax). Long story short, it was the hardest landing I have ever experienced in my life. Many of the overhead panels fell to the floor or were hanging by wires. Overhead bins were pulled out from there mounts. Some toilets had been thrown loose inside the cabinet. When we taxied in, I turned around to look at the English lady who had scolded me earlier. She was putting on her lipstick at the time of the landing and it was all over her face. I wanted to crack up, but I held it back. All she said was "don't you say a word".
Don't get me wrong, I have flow with other all female crews and they have been great. I am not trying to imply that all female crews are inferior to males. I just thought this was sort of comical.
Worst flight ever for me was in 1985 on a C-141 with the first all female crew. Was a big deal. Two 1'st LT's up front and a butter bar on the panel. We went from Hill AFB to Elmendorf (sp?) AK en route to Japan. After 5 attempts to land, we finally made it on the runway, then off the runway, then on the runway, then to parking. The ground guys said that they thought we were sure to crash (which is why we had crash rescue standing by- the tower called them based on what they were seeing). The crew kept sliding the plane sideways on the runway (which was icy) and then had to go around to stay straight. 15-20 knt crosswind. Needless to say, we refused to let them take us the rest of the way, and the AF flew in a couple LTC's and a major. The rest of the trip was uneventful.
Second worse flight was with another all female crew on a Northwest DC-10 from SEA to HNL in 94. When the CPT announced the names of the three crew members, I stated "Oh NO" under my breath, but an English woman in the seat behind me had heard me and began to scold me. I apologized to her but told her that I have not had very good experiences with all female flight crews. Well the trip over went fairly well until the landing. We landed on Rwy 4R which is called the coral Rwy because it sticks out into the ocean for a good portion of it and the foundation was made out of old rock and dug up coral. It is somewhat difficult to land on if you don't focus on the runway and start looking at the water because you can loose some visual cues (motion parallax). Long story short, it was the hardest landing I have ever experienced in my life. Many of the overhead panels fell to the floor or were hanging by wires. Overhead bins were pulled out from there mounts. Some toilets had been thrown loose inside the cabinet. When we taxied in, I turned around to look at the English lady who had scolded me earlier. She was putting on her lipstick at the time of the landing and it was all over her face. I wanted to crack up, but I held it back. All she said was "don't you say a word".
Don't get me wrong, I have flow with other all female crews and they have been great. I am not trying to imply that all female crews are inferior to males. I just thought this was sort of comical.
Hard Landings
Kerosene Snorter,
You are a punk! At the risk of starting a brawl, you just haven't been around long enough to evaluate the backgrounds of the various categories of pilots.
When I first came to Pan Am all intial training was done in the a/c.... usually the B-707. After flying military planes for so long I was not that confident of the structural integrity of airliners. That misperception was put to rest fast! We had a couple of relatively low time civilian pilots who drove that 707 into the runway, almost nose gear first. I saw sink rates to touchdown that were unbelivable. The instructor was not prepared for these guys and just snapped the wheel back at the last minute but did not arrest the sink rate At times The a/c hit, bounced into the air 10-20 feet or more with the engine pods flopping like crazy and crashed down again. I never again worried about a Boeing a/c after seeing that abuse. The sumulator has made a lot of low time pilots real "aces" but it wasn't always so.
Kerosene Snorter,
You are a punk! At the risk of starting a brawl, you just haven't been around long enough to evaluate the backgrounds of the various categories of pilots.
When I first came to Pan Am all intial training was done in the a/c.... usually the B-707. After flying military planes for so long I was not that confident of the structural integrity of airliners. That misperception was put to rest fast! We had a couple of relatively low time civilian pilots who drove that 707 into the runway, almost nose gear first. I saw sink rates to touchdown that were unbelivable. The instructor was not prepared for these guys and just snapped the wheel back at the last minute but did not arrest the sink rate At times The a/c hit, bounced into the air 10-20 feet or more with the engine pods flopping like crazy and crashed down again. I never again worried about a Boeing a/c after seeing that abuse. The sumulator has made a lot of low time pilots real "aces" but it wasn't always so.
mudkow60
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Typhoon1244
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This is exactly why I try to explain anything out of the ordinary to the passengers (static takeoffs, the DFW 13R "Stadium Visual," bad weather, etc.)
Now bad landings, on the other hand...I just stand by the door and let 'em flame away. Nobody's perfect.
I am surprised that these people drew the conclusion that the airlines "suck" based on one flight. Maybe they'd be happier on Greyhound next time.
Now bad landings, on the other hand...I just stand by the door and let 'em flame away. Nobody's perfect.
I am surprised that these people drew the conclusion that the airlines "suck" based on one flight. Maybe they'd be happier on Greyhound next time.
saabcaptain
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FlyChicaga said:I know! I know!
By the way, every landing in a Saab 340 is hard and causes the people to slide forward in their seats during reverse. At least if you're doing it right!
i know your joking... but that said too many pilots in the Saab like to make "that cool loud noise" ... personally ground idle and slight braking makes A on 31C every time if you land on speed and in the touchdown zone.
C
Chas
Touchy touchy
Reminds me of the time I told a story here about landing on 31 r at jfk ( as a passenger of course) when the plane touched down almost at Jet Blues terminal and stopped past the United/BA terminal.Everyone jumped on me about how a 400 + hour pilot knew this from the back even though I flew into Jfk 300 times in that 10 year period. God forbid someone relays a factual event .
Or landing in a plane so hard the oxygen masks fell out of the overhead.
How about a 747 pilot who had a tail strike landing?
Or an ACA j-31 from IAD to JFK flying through( in VERY close proximity)to a T storm with marble sized hail hitting the plane, mod to severe turbulence and people screaming ? I thought Tstorms should be given a wide berth ??
I guess there is good and bad on every job some times the environmental factors test everyones abilities. However people should be less defensive ! Chas
Reminds me of the time I told a story here about landing on 31 r at jfk ( as a passenger of course) when the plane touched down almost at Jet Blues terminal and stopped past the United/BA terminal.Everyone jumped on me about how a 400 + hour pilot knew this from the back even though I flew into Jfk 300 times in that 10 year period. God forbid someone relays a factual event .
Or landing in a plane so hard the oxygen masks fell out of the overhead.
How about a 747 pilot who had a tail strike landing?
Or an ACA j-31 from IAD to JFK flying through( in VERY close proximity)to a T storm with marble sized hail hitting the plane, mod to severe turbulence and people screaming ? I thought Tstorms should be given a wide berth ??
I guess there is good and bad on every job some times the environmental factors test everyones abilities. However people should be less defensive ! Chas
KeroseneSnorter
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Re: Hard Landings
Hmmmm.....Not quite sure what your beef is with me here. I was simply trying to point out to the original poster that there could have been many reasons for what his buddy experienced.
I guess you are peeved about the Navy comments. Naval Aviators are some of the best instrument pilots I have ever run across as a general statement. But from an IP point of view they tend to lack smooth landing skills when coming fresh off the boat and into an air carrier. Not a character flaw or a flame, it is a well known side effect of what they have been doing prior to the airline. Its along the same lines as a 747 pilot flying a 172 and trying to flare at 100 feet. We are a product of what we have been flying lately.
f9driver said:
Hmmmm.....Not quite sure what your beef is with me here. I was simply trying to point out to the original poster that there could have been many reasons for what his buddy experienced.
I guess you are peeved about the Navy comments. Naval Aviators are some of the best instrument pilots I have ever run across as a general statement. But from an IP point of view they tend to lack smooth landing skills when coming fresh off the boat and into an air carrier. Not a character flaw or a flame, it is a well known side effect of what they have been doing prior to the airline. Its along the same lines as a 747 pilot flying a 172 and trying to flare at 100 feet. We are a product of what we have been flying lately.
TCAS
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Re: Touchy touchy
Chas,
I'm not going to jump on you for this... I'm going to tell you that you were probably right. But as someone who's actually landed the aircraft at JFK about twice as many times as you've been in the back for a landing I'll tell you that the tower at JFK will allow turboprop crews to land long on 31R at JFK. This usually results in a touch down near the JetBlue terminal and a turnoff at the high speed taxiway that is just past the United/BA terminal. What you experienced is not a climactic event but an every day operational procedure at JFK.
As you build your flight time and gain operational experience you'll begin to learn that everything you see from the back of the aircraft may not be what you think is going on in the front of the aircraft
Chas said:
Chas,
I'm not going to jump on you for this... I'm going to tell you that you were probably right. But as someone who's actually landed the aircraft at JFK about twice as many times as you've been in the back for a landing I'll tell you that the tower at JFK will allow turboprop crews to land long on 31R at JFK. This usually results in a touch down near the JetBlue terminal and a turnoff at the high speed taxiway that is just past the United/BA terminal. What you experienced is not a climactic event but an every day operational procedure at JFK.
As you build your flight time and gain operational experience you'll begin to learn that everything you see from the back of the aircraft may not be what you think is going on in the front of the aircraft
RightPedal
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It's been a long time, late 80's I think. There was a bad storm that came across the atlanta airport and it shut down the entire system and caused delays nationwide. Maybe some of you remember this story.
There was an artical in flying magazine about this storm, and the flight I was on.
It was a valuejet 727 if memory serves. The flight was from ATL to MIA. After a very long time in line for departure. The captain came over the intercom and said that ATC was asking if someone would like to go up and take a look, or something to that effect.
I remember looking the flight crew over, as I always do, and try to speak as I board. I remember them both to be young guys.
We just happened to be parked at an intersection, I guess, so they worked their way out onto the runway and to the end for departure. The takeoff was quit scary. It was raining so hard I couldn't see the edge of the runway. By the time we reached about 500 feet, all hell broke loose. For about fifteen minutes, I thought that airplane was going to come apart.
There was not another word from the flight crew until we got to MIA. Then to top it all off, that was the hardest landing I've ever experenced. Something had to have broken after that one. Everybody, including myself screamed when it hit. I had a backache for a week. There were some very upset people leaving that plane. I felt so bad for the crew after such a good job dealing with the weather.
Most of the time the crew would stand at the cockpit door and thank everyone for flying with us, but not this time. They stayed in the cockpit with the door closed. Which was probably a good thing, but I wanted to shake their hand and hug their neck for a job well done.
I hope somebody else remembers this story in flying magazine.
There was an artical in flying magazine about this storm, and the flight I was on.
It was a valuejet 727 if memory serves. The flight was from ATL to MIA. After a very long time in line for departure. The captain came over the intercom and said that ATC was asking if someone would like to go up and take a look, or something to that effect.
I remember looking the flight crew over, as I always do, and try to speak as I board. I remember them both to be young guys.
We just happened to be parked at an intersection, I guess, so they worked their way out onto the runway and to the end for departure. The takeoff was quit scary. It was raining so hard I couldn't see the edge of the runway. By the time we reached about 500 feet, all hell broke loose. For about fifteen minutes, I thought that airplane was going to come apart.
There was not another word from the flight crew until we got to MIA. Then to top it all off, that was the hardest landing I've ever experenced. Something had to have broken after that one. Everybody, including myself screamed when it hit. I had a backache for a week. There were some very upset people leaving that plane. I felt so bad for the crew after such a good job dealing with the weather.
Most of the time the crew would stand at the cockpit door and thank everyone for flying with us, but not this time. They stayed in the cockpit with the door closed. Which was probably a good thing, but I wanted to shake their hand and hug their neck for a job well done.
I hope somebody else remembers this story in flying magazine.
C
Chas
Let me correct my post
Airline pilots are perfect and never have a bad day or make a mistake . Feel better now ?
You know any body can tell when the mains contact the ground on the runway then see where the plane is in relation to a terminal .Private pilot , retiree or pro pilot ! . Give me a break ! Chas
Airline pilots are perfect and never have a bad day or make a mistake . Feel better now ?
You know any body can tell when the mains contact the ground on the runway then see where the plane is in relation to a terminal .Private pilot , retiree or pro pilot ! . Give me a break ! Chas
Typhoon1244
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Simon Says
New Airbus Regional Jet
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FracCapt
Clown punchers, unite!
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Re: Yell at me!
Several years ago, I got onto a flight to jumpseat home...and it was full, so I was up in the cockpit. Another pilot(from that airline) wanted to jumpseat as well. He showed up while the Captain was up in the terminal doing something, and the FO was a woman. I said I'd take the "bad jumpseat"...ya know, the one behind the captain on the 737...and we waited in the galley area. When the Captain came down the jetway(also a woman)...he looked at her, looked at the FO, and said.."An all female crew? HELL NO." and walked away. The Captain asked me, "Are you sure you want to fly with an all female crew?" My response...."Why, are you trying to tell me you two can't figure out how to fly this thing?" We both got a good laugh...it turned out to be a perfect flight(under not so perfect weather conditions)...and she is now a good friend of mine.
Several years ago, I got onto a flight to jumpseat home...and it was full, so I was up in the cockpit. Another pilot(from that airline) wanted to jumpseat as well. He showed up while the Captain was up in the terminal doing something, and the FO was a woman. I said I'd take the "bad jumpseat"...ya know, the one behind the captain on the 737...and we waited in the galley area. When the Captain came down the jetway(also a woman)...he looked at her, looked at the FO, and said.."An all female crew? HELL NO." and walked away. The Captain asked me, "Are you sure you want to fly with an all female crew?" My response...."Why, are you trying to tell me you two can't figure out how to fly this thing?" We both got a good laugh...it turned out to be a perfect flight(under not so perfect weather conditions)...and she is now a good friend of mine.
bafanguy
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