Scabs at Jetblue

[MCDU]

Just curious of how many JetBlue have and how do people feel about them? I know of at least two who are Eastern. All got hired pretty much in 99.

cheers,

Marty

 

[Blue Dude]

Who cares?

 

[Pura Vida]

You should care! Scabs are the scum of the earth. They will bend over and take it up the ass at the drop of a dime. They are management's bitches. Beware of them. They have proven beyond any doubt that they are sniveling, groveling, weak, spineless individuals who care nothing about anyone else nor the advancement of the piloting profession. They only care about their own self centered interests. Don't even talk to a scab. They will rat you out to management in a second if they feel that your departure will enhance their advancement.

 

[IB6 UB9]

I care.

 

[sleepy]

Good question. I have another one for you. How many scabs were welcomed back into ALPA recently?

At least the JB scabs were not welcomed back into the Union they turned their backs on.

 

[MCDU]

I am just surprised that an airline with such a good reputation would hire such self centered individuals such as a scab. There is no excuse to cross a picket line and I do not understand why JetBlue would hire such scum. I remember how much crap valujet got for hiring scabs. With so many fine hard working pilots out there, why hire a scab. I know most airlines will not hire them unless your some 121 scum outfit. So why Jetblue?

 

[FoxHunter]

Curious, What is a SCAB? How do you define it?

 

[j41driver]

Curious, What is a SCAB? How do you define it?

Do you not really know or are you just wondering what his definition is??

 

[FoxHunter]

j41driver

"Do you not really know or are you just wondering what his definition is??"

I just see the term thrown around a lot. If one union, or union member crosses another union's picket line is that union, or members Scabs? If lower paid pilots are hired, recruited by a third party for the expess intent of circuventing seniority are they or the parties facilitating the program Scabs? Just curious.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Union members generally honor other unions' picket lines.

I agree, people do tend to throw the term around quite loosely, to describe anyone who somehow lowers themselves in any way to advance their career. I guess that would include anyone who has been a CFI, boxhauler, or regional airline FO! (btw, I have done all of these)

I am a purist with whom I call a scab. A scab crosses a picket line in order to fly the work of pilots who are on strike. Period, end of story.

While it may make a person feel good to deride others as "scabs", it only serves to dilute the definition. "Scab" should only be used in its truest form, to label the vilest members of our profession.

LAXSaabdude.

 

[Publishers]

threads

I do not know why we even continue to have threads like this. All they are is a testimony to the ignorance of issues and our inability to deal with people who do not think like you do.

For every pro union staunch advocate, there are two more that are members because it was required and unless it effects them on a direct basis, they could not care less about holding up the so called bar of the profession.

Jetblue and other companies that want to run businesses that are good for their shareholders and employees along with their venders and customers probably do not care about whether or not some one crossed some line that they do not really agree with in the first place.

And, then to add the pious , "only care about themselves", like
ALPA and the rest do not pretty much only care about themselves and their probems, well that is just too much. And you think their reputation will be hurt.

Get Real

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Re: threads

I do not know why we even continue to have threads like this. All they are is a testimony to the ignorance of issues and our inability to deal with people who do not think like you do.

When I was a student pilot up through my CFI, I had zero understanding of unions and their politics. It wasn't until I saw firsthand the type of abuse that could be leveled at our pilot group, and conversely, the resources that were available through our union in order to combat it, that I was able to fully understand.

Looking at your bio, it appears that you do not work for an airline, so maybe you should get a little experience in the arena before you lay into those of us who know what we are talking about.

LAXSaabdude.

 

[Blue Dude]

I had originally written a few sentences and then said screw it. It wasn't worth going into. It was edited down to "Who cares?" Probably what I should have said was "Why do you care?"

Well?

 

[JayDub]

I am just surprised that an airline with such a good reputation would hire such self centered individuals such as a scab. There is no excuse to cross a picket line and I do not understand why JetBlue would hire such scum. I remember how much crap valujet got for hiring scabs. With so many fine hard working pilots out there, why hire a scab. I know most airlines will not hire them unless your some 121 scum outfit. So why Jetblue?

Interesting comment. You know, JetBlue and Airtran are not the only airlines to have hired scabs. we aren't talking the UAL and CAL situations here. We're talking importing real-live scabs off the street.

Is there any chance you have the scab list on your computer? I chose Adobe myself. If you have, just do a search starting at the beginning of the Eastern Airlines section. Do a search using Delta. It is absolutely amazing how many guys scabbed at Easten and then got jobs at Delta. I was shocked.

In answer to the original question, all that we do have (that I am aware we have any way) were hired when the hiring process was handled by a contract company. Shortly after JetBlue started operations, the process was changed to include pilots in the interview. Curious thing; no more were hired after that.

Respectfully,

JayDub

 

[Skank]

Noone want to have scabs around, but it is quite bogus to mention our one or two token scabs when everyone else is chock full of the little buggers. ALPA seems to be able to tolerate them well enough.

 

[Pura Vida]

“The Scab”
written by: Jack London, (1876-1916)


After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad and the vampire, he had some awful stuff left with which he made a SCAB.

A SCAB is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a waterlogged brain, and a combination backbone made of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts he carries a tumor of rotten principles.

When a SCAB comes down the street men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep hime out. No man has a right to SCAB as there is a pool of water deep enough to drown his body in, or a rope long enough to hang his carcass with. Judas Iscariot was a gentleman compared to a SCAB. For betraying his master he had the character to hang himself. A SCAB hasn't.

Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas Iscariot sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British Army. The modern strike breaker sells his birthright, his country, his wife, his children and his fellow-men for an unfulfilled promise from his employer, trust or corporation.

Esau was a traitor to himself, Judas Iscariot was a traitor to his Lord, Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country.

A STRIKE BREAKER IS A TRAITOR TO HIS GOD, HIS COUNTRY, HIS FAMILY

AND THE WORKING CLASS

 

[mar]

Jack London, the Socialist?

Did you know that Jack London was a card carrying socialist?

Does that change your tune a little bit?

 

[MCDU]

JayDub,

Thanks for the reply. I figured that those got hired at the beginning of operations. Well, we all know how the scabs get treated at UAL. I do not know much about Delta, but I will check it out. Anyway, all the the best to JETBLUE. There are a lot of great guys I know who are flying with you that got hired there in the last 2 years.

cheers,
marty

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Re: Jack London, the Socialist?

Did you know that Jack London was a card carrying socialist?

Does that change your tune a little bit?

Not me. I'm an "issues" kind of guy. I can agree with one person's point of view on one issue, and completely disagree with their view on another issue.

I know, it's kind of rare these days. Usually people align themselves with one ideology or political party and allow themselves to be completely brainwashed by it.

I think scabs suck no matter what, and no matter who says so.

LAXSaabdude.

 

[FoxHunter]

My original airline, and one of my furlough jobs had a number of former EAL PFEs. These gentlemen lost their jobs when FEIA went out on strike at EAL in the early 60s. Captain Eddie gave the PFEs a choice. Come back to work, cross your union's picket line, and you will be placed on the pilot seniority list and the company will pay for your Commercial and Instrument. ALPA members at EAL crossed the FEIA picket line and welcomed the PFEs that crossed as members. Those PFEs that crossed retired as EAL Captains.

In 1974 at another furlough job I flew as a DC8 F/O for a Domican airline. The two line Captains were retired EAL, one happened to be the former EAL MEC Chairman during the FEIA strike. The two FEs were also both former EAL. One crossed, became a pilot, worked in Flight Test at EAL until he turned 60 and retired, the other younger FE had honored the picket line, bounced around from nonsked to nonsked. Ralph, the younger guy said he was still getting requests from FEIA for funds to fight the lockout.

To the best of my knowledge the FEIA strike was never settled.

Was anyone a SCAB??

 

[calfo]

Flying at Continental, I've looked this issue square in the face for the last six years... most of the people on that list are dirtbags and deserve whatever happens to them - be it denied jumpseats, etc.

Then again, there are some people on that list that really don't deserve to be there, they almost got put there on a "technicality".

The guys that deserve to be on that list are the "superscabs" - the ones that crossed the line right away and kept Lorenzo in business. What about the ones that were hired, or crossed two years after that...? I dunno - two years later, the strike was essentially over and crossing the line didn't really mean anything at that point - yet they still made "The List".

And, listening to a superscab's story, to wit: "Continental was in the midst of giving pay concessions to Lorenzo to keep out of bankruptcy. ALPA (basically United) came to the Continental MEC and told them that they have to go on strike or else everybody else would have to take pay cuts to match." I dunno if that's what really happened, but in a conspiracy-theory sorta way, it sounds plausible. By the way, did anybody tell UAL to go on strike because it was bad for the rest of us? hmmmmm....?

The bottom line that I give guys I fly with is this, you f**cked up in 1983, but here's your chance to redeem yourself - bid all your vacation, and don't scab me, if I have to walk.

To tell you the truth, if I had two kids in college and a wife going through chemotherapy, I'm not sure what I'd do.

I hope I don't have to walk in those shoes... I think we all hope that.

 

[Boeingman]

This thread is pretty comical. A lot of chest thumping and bravado, but remember lads, no one knows who will cross and who won't until it comes down to nut crunching time. Like many of the 400 original CAL pilots including some very rabid union folks who caved in the first day.

The list doesn't mean Jack. Besides ask yourselves....how many on that list are ex (or current) ALPA pilots? And why is that?

CALFO...Not sure who is telling you this info about ALPA telling us to walk in 83, it was all the CAL MEC with little prodding from national. It was a very poorly planned and executed strike.

Dirtbags? Listen sport, your type of attitude does not foster the unity required for us to attain a decent contract. My suggestion would be to promote unity rather than dissention. If not, I'd say you picked the wrong airline to work for.

Oh, and don't make any assumptions about me either.

 

[Beerme]

This thread is pretty comical. A lot of chest thumping and bravado, but remember lads, no one knows who will cross and who won't until it comes down to nut crunching time. Like many of the 400 original CAL pilots including some very rabid union folks who caved in the first day.

I KNOW! I didn't cross over in '98 when NWA pilots went on strike( some consider it a lock-out...either way, I ,nor any other NW pilot ,flew during that period) I knew beforehand exactly what I'd do....you should also!

 

[Boeingman]

I knew beforehand exactly what I'd do....you should also!

Ummmm, I do know. I already spent 25 months honoring a picket line.

 

[Publishers]

LAX

I have over thrity years at this so I think I am qualified to comment.

Some people just are not into labeling others with the negative comments that we seem to find so attractive.

Most of the young people on here that get caught up in this have no idea what some people face or what a crock most of this is. Let me be succinct. Life or companies owe you absolutely nothing. To some of us, if an employer treats us in a manner we find offensive, we go find someone else to work for.

Others need someone else to talk for them. They like joining things and being part of some group. Good for them. Just not for me. Frankly I find ALPA to be a self serving bunch who want to control a labor market. Not my kind of group.

 

[trainerjet]

Re: LAX

Frankly I find ALPA to be a self serving bunch who want to control a labor market. Not my kind of group.

Wow. Big surprise there, considering you fancy yourself as some sort of airline management, or at least management sympathizer. Your posts repeat the same old tired story that airlines are not in business to provide jobs, etc., that they owe you nothing, and that your are just a piece of the profit making scheme that can be replaced at will.

Until you actually have anything new to contribute, why do you bother to continue to post at all? I'm not sure you have much credibility here or much of a reputaion, either.

 

[calfo]

I have no firsthand knowledge of what transpired here in '83... I only know what I hear. That part about "being told to strike" was from a former assistant chief pilot that is now in the training department in Houston. Like I said, from a conspiracy-theory viewpoint, it sounded plausible.

 

[UALU30]

A SCAB is not a SCAB forever. . .

Sooner or later, all SCABS become Dead SCABS.

Names are not forgotten.

 

[Publishers]

post

I post everytime someone spits out this kind of anger when they have no idea of what the situtation was, no personal knowledge of the people and issues involved, and no empathy for much of anyone.

You do not have to be much of a manager type to read these boards and see the division over what goes on at ALPA. People who take some pleasure in seeing "Dead Scabs" are not worthy of this profession. In the end that is it is it not. We want to act like this is some lofty profession of highly skilled talented individuals but then run and look for a union to protect us like some minimum wage laborer.

 

[typhoonpilot]

UALU30:

I was waiting for a UAL guy to post something. Let's get this straight, the UAL pilots who went on strike for all of 35 days dare to label Eastern pilots who were on strike for 6 months and then went back to work Scabs ? Anybody can go on strike for 35 days, its like a vacation. Who doesn't have enough money to pay the bills if they were out of work for a month ? The Eastern pilots who were 45 years old with no prospects of getting another decent job; have been on strike for 6 months ( and in most cases actively supporting said strike ); whom ALPA National is telling to " go back to work "; who have run out of savings and are watching their only chance of income flounder; and who signed up en masse on the same day to go back to work are Scabs ?

I've worked with a lot of former Eastern pilots who fit that description exactly and are on that stupid little blacklist. Whenever a captain I was flying with at USAirways would pull it out I would tell him the personal stories of the guys I knew on that list. Generally speaking they softened their attitude considerably.

In Taiwan we had 12 Americans living together in the same hotel. Of those 12, 5 were former Eastern. One never went back because he had a job at Midway, Three went back at six months, and one was an outright Scab who crossed to get a job. Guess what ? they all got along fine. Two of them have been hired by JetBlue this year and that doesn't include the guy who didn't go back.

The heroes at UAL who went on strike for 35 days and so proudly wear their battle star ALPA pins shouldn't really talk until they have been on strike for something longer than a typical European's vacation. UAL pilots who didn't participate in that strike have even less place to speak.

Typhoonpilot