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Say goodbye to First Class on UAL

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Sounds like Delta. Here's the real bummer. For us, we struggle to get it internationally. They over-sale coach, then upgrade passengers into $8000 dollar seats due to the over-sale.
 
Sounds like they are getting their upgrade policy aligned with Continental's for the joint venture. Long haul international flights do not automatically upgrade elites so non revenue travel on the long haul stuff is still available in the premium cabins.
 
This isn't new. My wife has been automatically upgraded for as long as I can remember. In fact, I think she gets an email or something. But it's definitely automatic.
 
HockleyPilot said:
Wow, something customer service oriented, what a shock. I could never figure why they didn't do this before.
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The air fares they are paying don't even cover the cost of flying their sorry asses in coach, now you want to see them in first class? Whats the matter with you? You'd be great in management. Coming up with even more ideas to screw over labor out of the last few perks that remain. Giving non-revers the available first class seats is the least the airlines can do for the piss poor wages and the the pay cuts and loss of pensions they have forced upon us. And you want to give them to the leaches that pay 200 to 300 for a roundtrip ticket. The mentality of some people never ceases to amaze me!
 
pipejockey said:
The air fares they are paying don't even cover the cost of flying their sorry asses in coach, now you want to see them in first class? Whats the matter with you? You'd be great in management. Coming up with even more ideas to screw over labor out of the last few perks that remain. Giving non-revers the available first class seats is the least the airlines can do for the piss poor wages and the the pay cuts and loss of pensions they have forced upon us. And you want to give them to the leaches that pay 200 to 300 for a roundtrip ticket. The mentality of some people never ceases to amaze me!
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Wow I guess I have been away from the airlines for too long, that post amazes me.
 
AA717driver said:
No, you need that to get hired...

;)
TC
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Not if you check area 9, section 3D., part F, in sub section Q....it clearly states that the ATP/1500 hr is not enforceable to anyone born on planet earth between the dates of 1/1/1900 and 1/1/3000, or if they went to ERAU.:cool:
 
pipejockey said:
The air fares they are paying don't even cover the cost of flying their sorry asses in coach, now you want to see them in first class? Whats the matter with you? You'd be great in management. Coming up with even more ideas to screw over labor out of the last few perks that remain. Giving non-revers the available first class seats is the least the airlines can do for the piss poor wages and the the pay cuts and loss of pensions they have forced upon us. And you want to give them to the leaches that pay 200 to 300 for a roundtrip ticket. The mentality of some people never ceases to amaze me!
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Closer to the truth than anyone in management would ever admit. VA has the right policy on First Class: There is one way to get in first class and only one way: Buy a Friggen First Class Ticket.

Also: Dress code for First Class should come back. No more trailer park trash attire, flip flops and sweatpants and ignoramous catchy cartoon tee shirts. You want first class, pay for it and dress for it.
 
andyd said:
Also: Dress code for First Class should come back. No more trailer park trash attire, flip flops and sweatpants and ignoramous catchy cartoon tee shirts. You want first class, pay for it and dress for it.
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Yeah Right! Maybe if the airlines ever provide actual first class service!

A couple years ago there was an article in USA today about how United's service was the bottom of the barrel. That morning I heard the FA's in the galley laughing and joking about the article... while I was in 2D with my jacket still in my lap and no drink before takeoff! If I have to brush crumbs off the seat, clean garbage out of the seatback and then be offered a bag of SunChips on a 2.5 hour flight through lunchtime then your Damn Right I will never pay for a first class seat.

First class sure aint what it used to be!

Props to Continental though, you guys do a fine FC service.
 
barnyard said:
Yeah Right! Maybe if the airlines ever provide actual first class service!

A couple years ago there was an article in USA today about how United's service was the bottom of the barrel. That morning I heard the FA's in the galley laughing and joking about the article... while I was in 2D with my jacket still in my lap and no drink before takeoff! If I have to brush crumbs off the seat, clean garbage out of the seatback and then be offered a bag of SunChips on a 2.5 hour flight through lunchtime then your Damn Right I will never pay for a first class seat.

First class sure aint what it used to be!

Props to Continental though, you guys do a fine FC service.
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Please come try Int'l Business Class on DAL. It's second to none, outstanding professional service by our FA's, the food is incredible and the seats are great.

What do I find wrong with a revenue passenger being in First/Business? NOTHING...if they PAID for it. I agree with others however that Coach passengers should NOT be upgraded to First/Business for free...simply because Coach was oversold. It's a different story with the FF milers who have the miles/status to be upgraded, they have purchased enough of our product to be awarded for their loyalty and business. But the leisure traveler should NOT under any circumstances be given a $5-$8000 seat because their $5-$800 seat was oversold. Too bad, so sad...go on the next flight or another day...OR pony up the money for the product.
 
barnyard said:
Can anyone explain why a non-rev should get first class ahead of a loyal paying customer? Thanks.
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If a loyal paying customer paid for a coach seat, why would he be entitled to a first class seat?

Non-revs, on the other hand, are collecting on a perk of employment -- either their employment or the employment of a friend or family member. Lots of professions and industries provide perks to their employees. We could spend all day discussing what perks various employers provide to employees. If I go to a sporting event I don't complain if an employee of the team gets an occasional prime seat when I've paid for the nosebleed section. When a restaurant employee gets a great meal for free I don't get upset when I pay for -- and receive -- the $10.99 special. Let's not even mention the obsceneties at Goldman Sachs.

With all the raping and pillaging of airline employees since 9/11, I think we ought to at least leave them this one perk.

It really is that simple.
 
pipejockey said:
The air fares they are paying don't even cover the cost of flying their sorry asses in coach, now you want to see them in first class? Whats the matter with you? You'd be great in management. Coming up with even more ideas to screw over labor out of the last few perks that remain. Giving non-revers the available first class seats is the least the airlines can do for the piss poor wages and the the pay cuts and loss of pensions they have forced upon us. And you want to give them to the leaches that pay 200 to 300 for a roundtrip ticket. The mentality of some people never ceases to amaze me!
Click to expand...

Yea, I am management. You got me. Darn.

All I was saying is that United treats their pax like crap and maybe they can convince a few of them to buy first next time.

I don't know what people (you, nonrev's) are so concerned about first anyway for? There really isn't much difference from coach to first on UA other than the seats. Most have to pay for them, so whats the point?

The bigger reason UA should be concerned with is why so many first class seats are empty to begin with. Because the product sucks. Atleast Delta's is coming back around.

Later, jump to the conclusion guy.
 
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barnyard said:
Can anyone explain why a non-rev should get first class ahead of a loyal paying customer?

Thanks.
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How about this...because since 2001 pilots have taken 50% pay cuts, more if they were displaced to FO, lost pensions, have had reduced quality if life, and are worked more now than they have ever been! Now you want us to give up one of the last perks we have on this job? Whats the matter with you? What is the extent of what you would have us give up? As a few other people have posted, far fewer than I would have hoped, many companies provide some perks associated with their employment in lieu of higher salary. And as I said earlier, most so called "paying customers" don't even pay a fare that covers the CASM.

If there is any misguided sense of entitlement issues that abound, they stem from the passengers who feel they are entitled to be offered an airfare that has pretty much stayed the same for 30 years. Airline labor has been raped for 8 years and some want us to give up even more. Utterly amazing, and beyond belief.
 
Lots of self-loathing on this thread.
 
GogglesPisano said:
If a loyal paying customer paid for a coach seat, why would he be entitled to a first class seat?
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It's not about entitlement, it's about treating your CUSTOMERS as well as you possibly can.

When you put a uniformed crew member (int'l crew rest arguments aside...) in a first class seat and then parade 125 PAYING customers on by to wedge them selves into their seats, your airline has just pissed off 125 PAYING customers. It doesn't matter what they paid, hell a full Y fare can be more than a FC fare in some circumstances. Hell I've seen 219$ FC fares before, you can bet your a$s there are coach customers that have paid more than that.

I'm not advocating that anyone lose their 'perks' but to say that an airline employee is entitled to a FC seat over a paying customer is asinine. Just another example of why service on US airlines at best a joke- the attitude that your CUSTOMERS are just cattle to be herded around.

Why can't the airline find a deserving soul for the FC seat and put the non-rev in the back? When a gate agent offers me FC, I'll say no thanks, or, if there is someone deserving in the boarding area as in a servicemember or a vet, then they get the FC seat offered to me. The most deserving was the woman holding the folded American flag.

-Barnyard
 
HockleyPilot said:
Wow, something customer service oriented, what a shock. I could never figure why they didn't do this before.
Click to expand...

Because then no frequent flier would ever pay full fare for a first class domestic ticket. They would just sit standby hoping for a shot at a first class seat for the coach fare. The airline would inevitably lose the customer that would have paid a grand or two for the first class ticket but instead went "fu** it" and got the same seat standby for coach fare.
 
barnyard said:
It's not about entitlement, it's about treating your CUSTOMERS as well as you possibly can.

When you put a uniformed crew member (int'l crew rest arguments aside...) in a first class seat and then parade 125 PAYING customers on by to wedge them selves into their seats, your airline has just pissed off 125 PAYING customers. It doesn't matter what they paid, hell a full Y fare can be more than a FC fare in some circumstances. Hell I've seen 219$ FC fares before, you can bet your a$s there are coach customers that have paid more than that.

I'm not advocating that anyone lose their 'perks' but to say that an airline employee is entitled to a FC seat over a paying customer is asinine. Just another example of why service on US airlines at best a joke- the attitude that your CUSTOMERS are just cattle to be herded around.

Why can't the airline find a deserving soul for the FC seat and put the non-rev in the back? When a gate agent offers me FC, I'll say no thanks, or, if there is someone deserving in the boarding area as in a servicemember or a vet, then they get the FC seat offered to me. The most deserving was the woman holding the folded American flag.

-Barnyard
Click to expand...

You may have a different opinion when the ink on your license dries.
 
Barnyard, it's called dilution of product. Airlines that upgrade their Elite-level FFs have a set procedure to do so, and it's done ahead of non-revs. Elites typically can use mileage instruments, sticker-type products, or system-wide upgrades to get that Business-class seat. If said Elite(s) does not feel that particular flight is worth using the upgrade instrument, then it goes to a non-rev, or out empty.

If we constantly upgrade pax just for being there (CO, NW, DL, and now soon UA domestic aside for elites), there is zero incentive for passengers in the know to spend money on a product they will most likely receive for free. With a few exceptions, elite level FFs are savvy about flying and about non-revs being offered First, and most don't care. The other 200 pax who are "pissed off" about the crewmember in First aren't likely to ever give the airline enough business to earn the upgrade.
 
CA1900 said:
Because it's a specifically loyalty benefit in their frequent-flier program.
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Understood. I believe we were discussing upgrading run-of-the-mill coach pax ahead of a non-rev or vice-versa -- not FF's.
 
thruthemurk said:
You may have a different opinion when the ink on your license dries.
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I think he is a corporate pilot-hence the attitude against employee Business/First travel.

I fly all over the world in FC....it is part of my employment package. I agree with upgrading elite/platinum members on domestic flights. But international....it is a whole different story. It is an airline's premium product...and they charge a premium for it. Airlines have asked routine FC passengers their opinion on passenger upgrades....they absolutely do not want a coach passenger paying 1/5th of what they paid in a nearby seat. The majority of them don't mind an employee...they have travelled enough to understand employee perks. If they get pissed off seeing me in my pilot uniform sitting in business class, tough $hit....I don't get pissed off at my doctor for parking his Mercedez in the VIP parking spot at the hospital.

That said, I treat my FC privilege with respect. I usually dress in business attire for personal travel. I have helped FAs with some cabin-pax issues. I once was invited to the flight deck as they wanted an extra oipnion with a fuel system problem....I was glad to be of some help. At the end of the day....a pilot upfront in business is a great asset.
 
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