Safety Pilot Logging PIC

[DA50pilot]

Can a person who is a pivate pilot, ride along as a safety pilot with another private pilot, and legally log PIC time.

Just curious

Thanks in advance

 

[SATCFI]

Yes, as long as you agree before hand who will be the acting PIC for the flight. If you agree to do that, you , may log PIC as long as you are appropriately rated in the plane. Otherwise, log it as SIC. Remember, acting as PIC means you buy all the violations.

 

[midlifeflyer]

as long as you are appropriately rated in the plane. Otherwise, log it as SIC. Remember, acting as PIC means you buy all the violations.

You probably meant to include this, but just to clarify, in order to =log= PIC as a Safety Pilot, you must be =acting= as PIC. That in turn means that you must be qualified to =act= as PIC on the flight. That doesn't just mean ratings, it means the proper endorsements (complex, high performance, tailwheel, etc) as well.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Can a person who is a private pilot, ride along as a safety pilot with another private pilot, and legally log PIC time.

Just curious

And just checking. Do you mean as a safety pilot for a private pilot who is doing work in simulated instrument conditions? I know the answer is probably yes, but I've seen a number of people use "safety pilot" in a more generic sense.

 

[CitationLover]

SATCFI,

I don't think a safety pilot can log any SIC time. The only time you can log SIC time is if the airplane requires a two pilot crew (at least that's how I interpret the FAR 61 defn of SIC).

Anyone else agree/disagree?

 

[JimNtexas]

Re: Re: Safety Pilot Logging PIC

SATCFI,

I don't think a safety pilot can log any SIC time. The only time you can log SIC time is if the airplane requires a two pilot crew (at least that's how I interpret the FAR 61 defn of SIC).

Anyone else agree/disagree?

The FAA Chief Cousnel has written that a safety pilot is a required crewmember when the PF is under the hood, and can therefore log SIC time even if the airplane normally requires only a single pilot.

What good SIC time in my Archer is I don't know, but if you are my safety pilot you can log it.

 

[midlifeflyer]

SATCFI,

I don't think a safety pilot can log any SIC time. The only time you can log SIC time is if the airplane requires a two pilot crew (at least that's how I interpret the FAR 61 defn of SIC).

Anyone else agree/disagree?

Yes. The FAA disagrees. Read the definition again. It's actually pretty clear.

61.51
(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:
(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of § 61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or
(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.

The last part is the classic "safety pilot as SIC" situation since under 91.109(b),
"no person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless ... the other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings..."

 

[jergar999]

Bottom line:

Log time as PIC when you are safety pilot in an aircraft in which you are rated, and the agreement is made beforehand.

Never log SIC time in a single (unless it is a Caravan or PC12 on a 135 certificate that requires two pilots)

If anything will get you laughed out of an interview, it's SIC time in a Cessna 150. I have seen this personally. The simple application of common sense to your logbook will save you a lot of trouble, bending or trying to find loopholes will only cause headaches in the long run.

 

[CitationLover]

hey midlife,

if the faa chief counsel wrote that, then why is the faa q&a state to log it as PIC if it is agreed beforehand? seems contradictory, but then again this is the govt.


ps just read tracon, good book if you're bored.

 

[midlifeflyer]

hey midlife,

if the faa chief counsel wrote that, then why is the faa q&a state to log it as PIC if it is agreed beforehand? seems contradictory, but then again this is the govt.

I'm not sure what you think is contradictory. They're just describing different situations.

Basic Rules
SP logs PIC
1. SP is qualified to act as PIC and
2. SP is acting as PIC on the flight

SP logs SIC
1. SP is qualified to act as SIC
2. SP is not acting a PIC on the flight


Some examples: Start with the base situation. The Flying Pilot (FP) is under the hood and is using a Safety Pilot (FP).

Let's get the FP out of the way. Assuming the FP is rated in category and class, the FP gets to log PIC as the sole manipulator of the controls.

Here's some examples applying the basic rules

a. SP may log PIC if SP is (1) qualified to act as PIC and (2) FP and SP agree that SP will be acting as PIC.

b. SP may log PIC is SP is the only one who can act as PIC o the flight. For example, if the flight is in a 172RG and SP is the only one with the complex endorsement, then SP =has to= be acting as PIC. The "agreement" is superfluous. Another example would be a night flight and SP is the only one who is night current.

c. SP may log SIC if SP is (1) qualified to act as PIC but (2) FP and SP agree that FP will be acting as PIC.

d. Sort of the reverse situation as b. SP may log SIC if SP is not qualified to act as PIC. For example, they're back in that 172RG, but now FP has the endorsement and SP doesn't. FP =has to= be the PIC for the flight. SP can't log PIC because SP isn't qualified to act as PIC in a complex aircraft.

Notice that I use the word "may" in this. No one says that the SP has to log anything. jergar999's point about the silliness of logging (or at least counting) SIC in a 152 is well-taken. If you're looking at a career, you do have to apply some common sense to what you =choose= to log. (Although I disagree with his description of logging time the FAR specifically permits as "bending or trying to find loopholes." )