Safety is For Sale at CAL

[100/hour/5y]

Lima trip IRO open today... Blocked 7:59 going down & 7:53 coming home... never had an IRO until 2months ago... The Company added a IRO because the stream of ASAP reports dealing with Fatigue and safety of flight issues and flights with releases +8hrs..
Anyways, big storm today... Sch JMing... 0 756 fo's left today... Iro Lima trip in opentime... We have a Fo that wants to trade his Cdg iro for Lima... No prob right????
Not... Sch cnx iro pairing saying that it's not FAR required...
Safety is for Sale at CAL.... Don't fly us!

 

[planejockey]

I am sure the news media would love to hear that.

 

[GuppyWN]

8 block hours is FAR legal. I don't see the problem. I was scheduled to fly 7:55 and 7:40 the past two days. Granted I had 3 legs and 2 30 minute "breaks" in there each day.

What would you like the FAA flight time limit to be to feel safe? Maybe I'm missing something but unless dispatch is doing something abnormal to get the block time below 8 hours then just go to work, bust it out and go home.

Gup

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Before we started losing flying on the Saabs we had a 3 day trip that was 23.5 hours, 7/6/7 leg days. We could just about 30 in 7 just off that one pairing.

 

[aa73]

8 block hours is FAR legal. I don't see the problem. I was scheduled to fly 7:55 and 7:40 the past two days. Granted I had 3 legs and 2 30 minute "breaks" in there each day.

What would you like the FAA flight time limit to be to feel safe? Maybe I'm missing something but unless dispatch is doing something abnormal to get the block time below 8 hours then just go to work, bust it out and go home.

Gup

No offense Gup, but not quite the same animal when doing an all nighter into mountainous terrain where the controllers barely speak English and will send you into the rocks if you are not vigilant. On top of that, you've been planning your rest around a 3 man operation and they change it to 2 man at the last minute - that's got a Fatigue call written all over it.

Legal does not = safe.

 

[GuppyWN]

Thanks. There's always more to the story. I don't live in the all-nighter and "what'd he say" mindset.

Gup

 

[densoo]

Plus, what is standard practice? Sometimes that is an indicator of accepted safety. What do other airlines do on international redeyes, especially over the ocean. I'm sure the media would be all over CAL if they only knew that they use just two pilots when industry standard and practice is likely 3 pilots at all other airlines. Redeye international is a different animal. Just ask the pax on the Europe-EWR flight whose CA dropped dead over the Atlantic or the families of the Air France that disappeared (not than an extra pilot would have helped, but it shows that unexpected stuff happens out there and you wouldn't want to face some of it with just two pilots).

Saying the FAA doesn't require it is like the Colgan spokesman after the Buffalo accident saying "the FAA doesn't require upset training so we don't do it." Reporter should have come right back with "What I hear you saying is that Colgan does the absolutely minimum the FAA requires, and no more. So, there is nothing Colgan does beyond the FAA minimum?" When the Colgan spokesman would say "Well, that's not true. We do exceed FAA minimum standards in many areas." Reporter could say, "then why didn't you exceed FAA standards for upset training? Might have saved 49 lives."

If CAL uses 3 pilots for scheduling international redeyes, then they should use 3 pilots for flying international redeyes.

The larger issue though is that CAL cuts a lot of things very close to the bone. Contracts written by airline pilots for airline pilots add the extra safety margin above the FAA minimum because the pilots live the rules and know what is needed over the long haul. Not having a union for many years at CAL largely gutted the work rules to the FAA minimums, and even those sometimes have to be contested and fought over. It is a long road back to get these work rules back in place and enforced.

 

[say again]

Whats an IRO?

 

[Xtremepilot]

International Relief Officer, usually a First Officer that sits in the cockpit jumpseat for taxi, takeoff, climb, descent, and taxi in. He/she also relieves each crew member so that they may take a rest break, as required by the FARs on flights in excess of eight hours (1 IRO needed) or 12 hours (2 IROs needed).

 

[say again]

Gracias. Had an idea it was for that, but second guessed myself after I saw the flight blocked for under 8 hrs