Safecon and UND

[jetblast27]

I'm just curious on peoples thoughts about UND and their safecon team in a past thread titled Smyrna, TN. It sounds like a good public school and I think they have won more safecons than any other school. I also believe it costs the same as other state schools and is much less expensive than private schools (ERAU). Any other thoughts on UND are appreciated.

 

[ShawnC]

At least when I went to Riddle I found that going to an out-of-state public school, and going to Riddle would cost about the same.

Just an observation that I saw.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

Being from New England... i wanted to stay kinda close to home, and enjoy some skiing in the winter... So Daniel Webster was looking pretty good.... BUT... even with the $3,000 a year grant i got, it was still way more expensive than ERAU. So I can agree to what Shawn C said. Local competitor to ERAU is FIT... and the same thing, they were about the same cost as DW.

 

[jarhead]

on UND

Your question leaves out an important aspect of attending UND. UND is a state (public) University. Naturally, if you are a resident of the state of North Dakota, you get tuition rates that are more favorable than residents from out of state. HOWEVER, there are exceptions to that rule. UND has tuition reciprocity with several other states. In other words, you would not be charged tuition that the higher rates out of state students are charged, if you are a resident of one of those states that North Dakota has reciprocity agreements with.

I can't tell you all the states that have this arrangement with UND (I recall it is about six states). Minnesota is a state with reciprocity on tuition with UND, In other words, Minnesota will charge North Dakota residents tuition, as if they were a Minnesota resident, and North Dakota will Charge tuition to residents of Minnesota at the same rate as it does for its own residents. The states with these agreements are NOT all states that border North Dakota. This reciprocity on tuition rates can be a huge financial help if you are a resident of N.D. or a state with reciprocity agreements. Check on their web site for which states have reciprocity arrangements with UND.

Now, the flight costs (essentially lab fees) are the same for everyone. The aircraft fees and instruction fees out at the airport are the same for all, regardless of the state of residence. Those costs are often equal to, or even greater, than the tuition for your academic studies towards your B.A. or B.S. Your costs will vary there, dependant on how much flying is required to successfully pass your various 'phase checks' and check rides. Those costs also will vary from student to student, depending on the various ratings one chooses to get at UND. Fixed wing, rotary wing, multi, float plane, aerobatic, even jet training in Citations. All are available at UND. Those costs will vary anywhere from $30,000 to $65,000 depending on what you pursue, and how proficient you are in avoiding 'busted' check rides. Add the cost of the B.S. and room and board, your four year stint at UND in an aviation major, will be north of $100,000

It is, however, a first rate Aviation University, with a large, modern fleet of aircraft.....well over a hundred airplanes in the mid 90’s

 

[CWASaab]

I am a UND Grad, and can offer some information based on my experiences there. In addition to reciprocity the higher ed. system in North Dakota takes part in the Western Undergraduate Exchange program. WUE allows students from participating states to attend an out of state school for less than out of state tuition. I believe a student pays 150% of the in-state student rate.

There may be some restricitons involved, like being in a program that is not available in your own state school system (aviation programs are not terribly common in state schools), but it is something to look into.

Also, obtaining in-state status is fairly easy in ND. I think you need to be there for a year, and become a ND licensed driver. I did WUE my first year and a half, then became in-state. And yes, the tuition cost is reasonable, much less than either of my brother's private university bills. Being a prop-head evens out the costs though, the 'flight account' is just a temporary repository for money.

As far as the school goes, I enjoyed my experiences there very much. I was accepted at Daniel Webster and ERAU Prescott, but for me the facilities in Grand Forks made it the right choice, for me. Something that UND offers that DW and ERAU don't is the "other side of campus" a complete liberal arts college. It may not matter to everyone, but you probably won't find any English majors or Medical students rubbing shoulders with the prop-heads at an NCAA division 1 sporting event at too many of the other top aviation schools. I enjoyed and valued the diversity.

The flight team at UND does have an enviable record, but is by no means infalliable. If that is something you are interested in, great, I'm sure the team is always in need of dedicated pilots.

If you haven't already, check out www.aero.und.edu they have some additional info on all of the aviation related student activities.

CWASaab

 

[pilotman2105]

As far as the school goes, I enjoyed my experiences there very much. I was accepted at Daniel Webster and ERAU Prescott, but for me the facilities in Grand Forks made it the right choice, for me. Something that UND offers that DW and ERAU don't is the "other side of campus" a complete liberal arts college. It may not matter to everyone, but you probably won't find any English majors or Medical students rubbing shoulders with the prop-heads at an NCAA division 1 sporting event at too many of the other top aviation schools. I enjoyed and valued the diversity.

While I by no means care for UND for many reasons, I will agree with this. I'm currently at a liberal arts college where there are other majors except aviation. My significant other is actually a PE major.

This said, the other all aviation universities (ERAU, etc.) are lacking both diversity in disciplines as well as in gender. But we've had that conversation already...

Back to the beverage!

 

[jarhead]

pilotman2105

I am curious as to your reasons for "not caring" for UND as a University, (aviation or any of the many other majors). My wife and I put our son through that school from 1990 though 1994, and we (the parents) loved the area, the facilities, and the academics and quality of flight training. I believe our son also enjoyed it, as he has stated when he hits mandatory retirement age at 60 (he's only 32 now) when he retires from the airline he is employed by now, he'd like to go back to that 141 school, and take up classroom duties as a teacher/professor in an aviation cirriculum.(not actual line instruction) Low cost of living, low crime, fresh air, etc.

I have seen/heard from time to time, some animosity or disdain for the UND school, and am honestly curious as to why that is. Every grad that I know of, (and there are many) have gone on to 121 carriers relatively fast, and all seemed to have good feelings and memories of the school, and Grand Forks, ND in general, other than the abolutely brutal weather in the winter.

Can you give me a sense of what it is that you find distastful about UND?

Seriously!

 

[FN FAL]

I believe our son also enjoyed it, as he has stated when he hits mandatory retirement age at 60 (he's only 32 now) when he retires from the airline he is employed by now, he'd like to go back to that 141 school, and take up classroom duties as a teacher/professor in an aviation cirriculum

If he can't make a good retirement by the time he hits 60, maybe he should work inside the training department as a sim instructor...that's what a lot of airline captains that can't make it on regional retirement pay do...sure beats the heck out of working at Walmart as forklift driver.

 

[jarhead]

FN FAL

I don't think you got the "drift" of my question.

First off, my son is already a sim instructor/captain, and has been running the Class D sims for over three years now. He is going back to being a line pilot on Monday of this coming week. He has done well with his 401 (k) and other savings, along with his wife (who is not in aviation) and are really not worried about their "retirement" income. It's more an issue of not wanting to sit on the porch to watch the sun set. I can assure you, driving a fork lift at Wal-Mart was never a part of the equation, and will not be (that is an iron clad certainty)

In case you did not understand the question I posed. Let me repeat it for you. WHY DO SO PEOPLE MANY HAVE DISDAIN FOR UND?

Now, since you have already shown your colors (shiit brown) and come across as a complete A.H. to a serious question, I do not expect any response from you other than that of a low grade moron.

Thank you for your limited attention span.

 

[pilotman2105]

Re: pilotman2105

I am curious as to your reasons for "not caring" for UND as a University, (aviation or any of the many other majors).

Gladly. I'm an expert at my opinion.

My wife and I put our son through that school from 1990 though 1994, and we (the parents) loved the area...

The area is dessolate (sp?). The only thing in Grand Forks is a Walmart and flat nothingness. Because of this, the wind ALWAYS is blowing.

..the facilities...

Yeah, they're good, but you pay through the nose for them. If you want top of the line perfectly new stuff, sure... go for it. I don't really need that.

and the academics and quality of flight training.[/b]

Other than the number "141," the only difference that I've found between UND and a private FBO is that a general person off the street may have heard that UND is a flight school. You can find the same quality of training and academics at any other flight school. If you must really go through a 141 school, fine, but I find it just as easy to go through a FBO. Plus, you have more flexibility in the training.

other than the abolutely brutal weather in the winter.

Another reason why to avoid UND. I've lived in Minnesota for a while, and when it's cold here (-20 to -30) it's usually twice that in Grand Forks (-40 to -60). I can handle the below 0 stuff, but there's a point when enough is enough.

I realize that there are people willing to devote the time, effort, and resources (including a block heater in the car and 16 layers of clothing) to go to UND. That is their choice. For the cost, sacrifices, and sheer misery that I think I would have experienced there, I elected to attend elsewhere. I stand by my decision for the reasons stated above.

For those of you who enjoy UND, I'll be happy to send you a cup of hot chocolate.

 

[jarhead]

Hey pilotman2105

You're crackin' me up. ROTFLMAO. You absolutely nailed a lot of stuff, especialy about the winter and the "layered" look. "Nanook of the Arctic" I also reside in Minnesota, and I concur, when it's 30 below here, it really is 50 to 60 below in Grand Forks. I had a friend who was once stationed at the Grand Forks Air Force base,(B-1 Bombers) and he often said that "Grand Forks might not be the end of the world, but you can see it from here". Yes, winter is the down side, but as my son often said, "Well dad, it shakes the riff-raff out". Those that can't handle it generally stay in more weather friendly environs.....including the crooks, robbers and and generally undesirable people. Easier to pick pockets in Miami than in Grand Forks with the Eskimo garb.

Thanks for the honest feedback!

 

[FN FAL]

First off, my son is already a sim instructor/captain, and has been running the Class D sims for over three years now. He is going back to being a line pilot on Monday of this coming week. He has done well with his 401 (k) and other savings, along with his wife (who is not in aviation) and are really not worried about their "retirement" income. It's more an issue of not wanting to sit on the porch to watch the sun set. I can assure you, driving a fork lift at Wal-Mart was never a part of the equation, and will not be (that is an iron clad certainty)

Haha...I was just being "Facetious"

Main Entry: fa·ce·tious
Pronunciation: f&-'sE-sh&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French facetieux, from facetie jest, from Latin facetia
1 : joking or jesting often inappropriately : WAGGISH <just being facetious>
2 : meant to be humorous or funny : not serious <a facetious remark>
synonym see WITTY
- fa·ce·tious·ly adverb
- fa·ce·tious·ness noun

As far as what is and what isn't 'iron clad'...you'll have to ask Rod Serling what that's all about.

 

[jarhead]

FN FAL

Do I need to ask Rod Serling what his view is on an only child receiving an inheritance?

Ah, never mind. I forgot about that limited attention span.

Still can't focus on the original question, right?

Have you thought about seeing an MD for a prescription for Ridilan? (AADD)

 

[FN FAL]

Do I need to ask Rod Serling what his view is on an only child receiving an inheritance?

If I out live my double dipping, career submariner, retired school system steam fitter, married a school teacher, old man...I'll let you know.

 

[jarhead]

jetblast27

Sorry for the thread drift/hijacking.

I'd hoped some others might take the time to answer the question you posed about UND.

Sorry for the pi$$ing contest that developed here. I tried to answer as best as I could, and Pilotman2105 gave you his views as well. So, there are two opinions about UND. Maybe others will join in and answer with their answers to your question.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[FN FAL]

Sorry for the pi$$ing contest that developed here

it's not a pi$$ing contest until my skydiving buddy's UND grad kid drives by the house with his Maserati, blowing the horn and giving me the finger. I was promised this would happen...and he has two kids that went the UND route. I have a feeling they will be getting their inheritance long before I have to worry about any Maserati horn blowing, finger giving, drive by action from his two UND grad kids.

 

[EagleRJ]

I don't know if you could get near $100k for a UND education, even if you get all the optional certs/type ratings, etc. unless they've raised their prices quite a bit since I was there. I think most people get out of there for between $40k and $60k. The prices are more than you would spend at a local FBO, but the facilities, aircraft, and staff are more comprehensive. UND is still cheaper than Riddle, too.

Yes, the winters are cold there. Personally, I didn't mind it. It was an adventure! There are days when you can't fly due to known ice, though. The flip side of that is that you will get plenty of experince flying in actual instrument conditions- something that can't be said of the schools on the beach or in the desert.

The UND Flying Team has a reputation for being cocky, and I guess they're entitled to be a little- they're good, and they win SAFECON regularly.
They didn't have a problem with self-esteem though- that's for sure, and the rest of the students at UND didn't like them either.

 

[pilotman2105]

There are days when you can't fly due to known ice, though. The flip side of that is that you will get plenty of experince flying in actual instrument conditions- something that can't be said of the schools on the beach or in the desert.

I don't know about that. Especially in the February - April and October - November range, if there is IMC, there is probably going to be ice. How can you pick up actual then? Places at the beach are usually warm enough to get some IMC without ice.

The UND Flying Team has a reputation for being cocky, and I guess they're entitled to be a little- they're good, and they win SAFECON regularly.
They didn't have a problem with self-esteem though- that's for sure, and the rest of the students at UND didn't like them either.

Maybe it's a sign if everyone else doesn't like them that they take the cocky thing to an extreme? They have a right to hold their head up high, but they don't have the right to think they are "better" than anyone else.

 

[jarhead]

EagleRJ

I just looked at the UND official website. Current tuition for non residents for carrying 12 credits, is $5,761 per semester. That is just tuition only.....no room and board or fees were listed, but back in the early 90's,room and board ran around $2500 a year. That tuition only, currently comes to just over $46,000 for a four year degree in tuition alone. Add the costs associated with the various tickets and ratings, and then room and board, it will be well over 100K today. In the years 1990 through 1994, the total cost to put our son through UND was over 100K back then with those courses. That was for a B.S. in airway science, plus SEL,MEL, Comm/Instrument CFI, CFII, and MEI. I am sure the flight costs have risen in the 10 years that have now gone by. The tuition for a Minnesota resident will be less due to reciprocity, but they are not yet posted for the coming year.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

I don't know about that. Especially in the February - April and October - November range, if there is IMC, there is probably going to be ice. How can you pick up actual then? Places at the beach are usually warm enough to get some IMC without ice.

You can pick up IMC easy up north, but then you also don't panic as much when you do pick it up later in life. I am not saying you should go out and pick severe iceing up in your 172, but getting a very light glaze during your instrament training might not be such a bad idea. I think it is a safe time to shut up.