#s @ NJA

[stillaboo]

When I look on airline pilot central at the payrates, I see the huge pay disparity for the DA2000EX and the BBJ vs. the other equipment.

What percentage of the pilot group are actually captains on these aircraft though?

Can anyone supply info on what rough % or # of the pilot group is on each equipment paygrade and what the rough upgrade times are for them now?

Sorry, I did a search and didn't find the info.

 

[notaNJApilot]

yes, there is a big jump in pay from the smaller aircraft to the EX and then again to the BBJ. Right now I think we have 2 BBJs and 3 EXs, so there aren't many pilots in those fleets. Out of 2500 pilots there are roughly 23 in the BBJ and 20 in the EX. No one can say for sure how long it will take to upgrade to these fleets as a captain. My guess is no one hired today will ever make it to these fleets.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Class 4 and 5 pay is something of folklore and legend for most pilots at NJA. It seems to exist on paper but for most it will never be a tangible reality.

Anyone planning on working at NJA had better be comfortable with the Class 1,2 and 3 rates of pay.

This fact is also even more incentive to get those rates higher next time since the lions share of the seniority list will NEVER see 4 or 5 pay rates.

Not trying to be negative, just realistic.

 

[netjetwife]

While we're looking at realities....potential NJ pilots need to come prepared to work to get FO pay where it should be. Upgrade isn't fast enough (3-5 yrs or so) nor is the payscale high enough for the expensive cities the pilots are now required to use as a domicile. I suggest that the NJ pilots elect a well seasoned MEC that has shown they have the experience and talent to lead the group forward. Much has been accomplished but the NJ pilots need to Build On Success.

 

[notaNJApilot]

Upgrade is still at <2 years in the small fleets. It's only your guess that it will take 3-5 years.

 

[jherk02]

In Oct '06, the company briefed the estimated upgrade time as 2.5 to 3.5 years.

 

[tk855]

While we're looking at realities....potential NJ pilots need to come prepared to work to get FO pay where it should be. Upgrade isn't fast enough (3-5 yrs or so) nor is the payscale high enough for the expensive cities the pilots are now required to use as a domicile. I suggest that the NJ pilots elect a well seasoned MEC that has shown they have the experience and talent to lead the group forward. Much has been accomplished but the NJ pilots need to Build On Success.

I completely agree with you we need an MEC team that is very strong, one could say Team Strength!

 

[stillaboo]

While we're looking at realities....potential NJ pilots need to come prepared to work to get FO pay where it should be. Upgrade isn't fast enough (3-5 yrs or so) nor is the payscale high enough for the expensive cities the pilots are now required to use as a domicile.

Does anyone at NetJets see the loss of the multiple domiciles as a 'B scale'? Is it possible that by the time the next CBA comes up for a vote that the 'B scale' pilots forced to live in the 5 domiciles will outnumber the 'A scale' pilots?

I just see a real chance at division here, and, while I understand that the NJA pilots didn't want to give up the multiple domiciles, I really don't see the incentive for many of the new pilots who are forced to live in the 5 domiciles to try to get the multiple domicile system back for newhires or themselves, which is probably not a huge concern for the guys grandfathered in and not living in the 5 domiciles anyway - they already gave this up in the last CBA b/c it didn't impact them. However, what happens if these 'B scale' guys outnumber the 'A scalers' and want to give up the multiple domiciles for ALL pilots in exchange for higher payrates on the class 1-3 pay?

Do any of the current NJA pilots see this happening, or is the frac industry or Net Jets immune from the pressures felt at the airlines and those that the AA pilots felt when the 'A scale' there allowed a 'B scale' on their property and it ended up dividing them?

Thanks for the info on the class 4 and 5 aircraft. The NJI aircraft are all class 4 right, just not on property . . . yet?

 

[Masterplan]

Domiciles

So if a pilot gets hired today by NetJets how close to the domicile must they live? Is commuting even a possibility?

 

[Guitar Guy]

So if a pilot gets hired today by NetJets how close to the domicile must they live? Is commuting even a possibility?

New-hires do not have to live in their domicile. The company will provide a brief the day or evening before a duty day that includes the assigned show location and time. As such, a new-hire can live anywhere he or she wants as long as he or she is at the assigned show location at the appropriate time.

A friend of mine who just started here a few months ago lives about 300 miles from his domicile. So commuting is a possibility - it just depends what you are willing to deal with.

 

[netjetwife]

I'm not alone in my guesstimate that upgrades will take 3-5 yrs;that has been posted here many times and my husband has an in-depth knowledge of the situation. Considering the FO payscale, and the toll of commuting, it is prudent to use a conservative timeframe.

All aspects of the domicile debacle have been discussed and the general consensus seems to be that the domicile pilots will fight to be in the HBA system. I expect they will be supported by many HBA pilots. It is a fairness issue and many don't like the way it divides the group.

 

[ETDTBA]

While we're looking at realities....potential NJ pilots need to come prepared to work to get FO pay where it should be. Upgrade isn't fast enough (3-5 yrs or so) nor is the payscale high enough for the expensive cities the pilots are now required to use as a domicile. I suggest that the NJ pilots elect a well seasoned MEC that has shown they have the experience and talent to lead the group forward. Much has been accomplished but the NJ pilots need to Build On Success.

Just a question:

What would the pay rates have to be to get pilots to stop complaining about their "low" wages?

 

[Ultra Grump]

FO pay industry-standard 60% of Capt pay, to start.

 

[notaNJApilot]

I'm not alone in my guesstimate that upgrades will take 3-5 yrs;that has been posted here many times and my husband has an in-depth knowledge of the situation. Considering the FO payscale, and the toll of commuting, it is prudent to use a conservative timeframe.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying there is no way to be certain. To give a legitimate guesstimate you'd need to know many more factors that aren't public information - aircraft deliveries, number of captains requried, current number of captains, number of captains and FOs leaving the company, number of captains leaving line duties, etc, etc. 3-5 years is a pretty big window. In those 2 years, current captains could simply trade aircraft which would keep any FOs from ever upgrading. I don't think it's fair to try to scare away applicants or even consider using your guesstimate as a bargaining position when the current trend is not even close.

 

[Cargoav8or]

A little info please.
Can anyone give me the gouge on the hiring process at NJA. I have an app, after its sent in what kind of time frame are we looking at if selected for an interview? How is the interview process? And finally, are the numbers on the pay scale hard to beat or is there enough extra flying or reserve out there? Not a time whore, just trying to survive with a family for the first few years and make a career out of this place.

 

[skiandsurf]

Just a question:

What would the pay rates have to be to get pilots to stop complaining about their "low" wages?

Pilots will never stop complaining about the low pay. Pilots do want to be compensated for their training, experience, safety, responsibilities and our sacrifices.

Pilots want to get paid enough to have a life outside of work. Pilots want to buy a house, not rent a room in a crashpad. Pilots want to eat at places other than McDs. Pilots want to get paid in line with other highly trained professionals.

The old standard was, an airline pilot could buy a new cadillac each month. Today, a pilot cant even buy a Kia.

Again, as long as pilots get abused, pilots will complain.

 

[notaNJApilot]

I think it's fair to say everyone will complain about their pay. A question though - do retired airline guys that come to NJ after making much more than FO pay look down on other new hires who are making the same wages even though they don't have nearly the same experience?

 

[netjetwife]

Cargo, the time frame depends on the domicile choice listed. Interviews are conducted according to the domicile they are working on at that time. The Reserve schedule pays more than the 7&7 and there should be no problem getting on that. Yes there are opportunities for OT and extended days--more on the Reserve. I totally understand your concern. I don't think the numbers are hard to exceed, but again, you will make more on the Reserve.

I don't think "looking down" is a fair description. Sure every group has its share of jerks, but most aren't that way. It's more accurate to say that those who know their worth get frustrated with those who don't. At NJ 93% of the pilots had voted to strike so that wasn't a big problem there obviously.

Nota, for the reasons you listed it is wise to take the more conservative approach on upgrading. It has nothing to do with "scaring" potential applicants. It is simply better to be pleasantly surprised rather than sorely disappointed. Additionally, should the worse case scenario happen, a pilot/frac family would need to survive on the FO pay quite awhile so it makes fiscal sense to be prepared for the worst.

I'll match UG's 60% and call for an adjustment on top of that to reflect the additional duties frac FOs perform as well as the extra training the company uses as a selling point. Underpaid workers are right to complain and well compensated employees usually don't, I think. Thus, we should expect to hear calls for pay adjustment from the NJ pilots when they go back to the table--particularly from the FOs. I think the former Co-Chair of the SPC would be an excellent choice for FO Rep on the MEC.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I have an app, after its sent in what kind of time frame are we looking at if selected for an interview?

Could be anywhere from weeks to months. It depends on factors such as which domicile(s) you may be willing to accept. Also, the upcoming holiday season may slow done interviews.

How is the interview process?

It doesn't sound like it's changed much at all since I interviewed a little over 2 years ago. NetJets flies you out and puts you up at a hotel for a night. The first evening is a presentation on the company. The following day is the actual interview. During that day, you'll do a combination tech/HR interview, a sim ride and a drug test. Very relaxed and there's plenty of gouge around. In my experience, it was a very straight-forward and pleasant process, as interviews go.

And finally, are the numbers on the pay scale hard to beat or is there enough extra flying or reserve out there? Not a time whore, just trying to survive with a family for the first few years and make a career out of this place.

The numbers that you see in the contract are base salary. Any overtime is on top of that and you'll usually get a few hours (at least) on most tours. Also, per diem is on top of the pay scales. If you are successful bidding for the reserve schedule, you'll beat the 7-n-7 pay scale a little over 18% and again, that's just on base salary.

Another factor to consider is that, right now, we don't pay a monthly deductible for health insurance. That's worth some money right there. In addition, we keep hotel points and airline miles which may be useful when you take your family traveling.

Good luck to you if you decide to apply to NJA. Feel free to PM if you have more questions.

 

[netjetwife]

And do wear a tie for the "casual" presentation. Better to be safe than sorry. Good Luck!

GG, I was hoping you'd post all the detailed info....