#s @ NJA

[skiandsurf]

Just a question:

What would the pay rates have to be to get pilots to stop complaining about their "low" wages?

Pilots will never stop complaining about the low pay. Pilots do want to be compensated for their training, experience, safety, responsibilities and our sacrifices.

Pilots want to get paid enough to have a life outside of work. Pilots want to buy a house, not rent a room in a crashpad. Pilots want to eat at places other than McDs. Pilots want to get paid in line with other highly trained professionals.

The old standard was, an airline pilot could buy a new cadillac each month. Today, a pilot cant even buy a Kia.

Again, as long as pilots get abused, pilots will complain.

 

[notaNJApilot]

I think it's fair to say everyone will complain about their pay. A question though - do retired airline guys that come to NJ after making much more than FO pay look down on other new hires who are making the same wages even though they don't have nearly the same experience?

 

[netjetwife]

Cargo, the time frame depends on the domicile choice listed. Interviews are conducted according to the domicile they are working on at that time. The Reserve schedule pays more than the 7&7 and there should be no problem getting on that. Yes there are opportunities for OT and extended days--more on the Reserve. I totally understand your concern. I don't think the numbers are hard to exceed, but again, you will make more on the Reserve.

I don't think "looking down" is a fair description. Sure every group has its share of jerks, but most aren't that way. It's more accurate to say that those who know their worth get frustrated with those who don't. At NJ 93% of the pilots had voted to strike so that wasn't a big problem there obviously.

Nota, for the reasons you listed it is wise to take the more conservative approach on upgrading. It has nothing to do with "scaring" potential applicants. It is simply better to be pleasantly surprised rather than sorely disappointed. Additionally, should the worse case scenario happen, a pilot/frac family would need to survive on the FO pay quite awhile so it makes fiscal sense to be prepared for the worst.

I'll match UG's 60% and call for an adjustment on top of that to reflect the additional duties frac FOs perform as well as the extra training the company uses as a selling point. Underpaid workers are right to complain and well compensated employees usually don't, I think. Thus, we should expect to hear calls for pay adjustment from the NJ pilots when they go back to the table--particularly from the FOs. I think the former Co-Chair of the SPC would be an excellent choice for FO Rep on the MEC.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I have an app, after its sent in what kind of time frame are we looking at if selected for an interview?

Could be anywhere from weeks to months. It depends on factors such as which domicile(s) you may be willing to accept. Also, the upcoming holiday season may slow done interviews.

How is the interview process?

It doesn't sound like it's changed much at all since I interviewed a little over 2 years ago. NetJets flies you out and puts you up at a hotel for a night. The first evening is a presentation on the company. The following day is the actual interview. During that day, you'll do a combination tech/HR interview, a sim ride and a drug test. Very relaxed and there's plenty of gouge around. In my experience, it was a very straight-forward and pleasant process, as interviews go.

And finally, are the numbers on the pay scale hard to beat or is there enough extra flying or reserve out there? Not a time whore, just trying to survive with a family for the first few years and make a career out of this place.

The numbers that you see in the contract are base salary. Any overtime is on top of that and you'll usually get a few hours (at least) on most tours. Also, per diem is on top of the pay scales. If you are successful bidding for the reserve schedule, you'll beat the 7-n-7 pay scale a little over 18% and again, that's just on base salary.

Another factor to consider is that, right now, we don't pay a monthly deductible for health insurance. That's worth some money right there. In addition, we keep hotel points and airline miles which may be useful when you take your family traveling.

Good luck to you if you decide to apply to NJA. Feel free to PM if you have more questions.

 

[netjetwife]

And do wear a tie for the "casual" presentation. Better to be safe than sorry. Good Luck!

GG, I was hoping you'd post all the detailed info....

 

[Willy21]

I will second that a tie is important for the first day. The hotel van will drop you off at Bridgeway, that is the compnay FBO and H.Q. Any time you are there as an employee you are required to wear a tie. They say nothing about that in the packet they send you prior to the interview. But as they say, When in Rome...... Best of luck to all.

 

[Archie Bunker]

I will second that a tie is important for the first day. The hotel van will drop you off at Bridgeway, that is the compnay FBO and H.Q. Any time you are there as an employee you are required to wear a tie. They say nothing about that in the packet they send you prior to the interview. But as they say, When in Rome...... Best of luck to all.

Completely ridiculous. If they wanted you to wear a tie or a suit on the first day, they would have instructed you to do so. It's not some kind of a secret test where Derinda is taking notes on who is wearing a tie or not. You are a visitor, not an employee. Out of all the guys in my interview group, only one was wearing a tie on day one....and he looked out of place. Everyone else was wearing nice slacks and a collared shirt....plenty good enough. Save your suit and tie for day two, when you actually need them.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Everyone in my interview group wore a tie on the first day, but like Arch said, there's nothing in the paperwork to indicate that it's formal. A friend of mine carried a tie with him for that first evening so that if the majority were wearing one, he could quickly "tie one on". I think that's a good way to attack the situation. An even better idea might be to ask Derinda before flying out to CMH.

That said, I've not heard of someone getting turned down here because he wasn't wearing a tie on the first evening. Those unsuccessful candidates usually fail during the personal interview or the sim ride, not during the company presentation.

NJW - as always, just glad to help out.

 

[Cargoav8or]

Thanks for all the info folks, it is appreciated.

 

[208starcheck]

Upgrades

Upgrades are definitely more then 2 years. I don't know how much longer but I can tell you it's more then 2 years. When I upgrade I can tell you how long it takes. I have bids in for EVERYTHING and I'm now over 2 years. Hopefully an upgrade bid will happen in less then 6 months.

Keep in mind the upgrade time is not linear for everyone. A buddy of mine was hired 6 monthes after me. He is looking at nothing short of a year longer then myself as an SIC.

I would say 3.5 years is a fair guess for new hires.

 

[AirBear8]

Upgrades are definitely more then 2 years. I don't know how much longer but I can tell you it's more then 2 years. When I upgrade I can tell you how long it takes. I have bids in for EVERYTHING and I'm now over 2 years. Hopefully an upgrade bid will happen in less then 6 months.

Keep in mind the upgrade time is not linear for everyone. A buddy of mine was hired 6 monthes after me. He is looking at nothing short of a year longer then myself as an SIC.

I would say 3.5 years is a fair guess for new hires.

I've been here 20 months and the last Encore PIC bid went about 100-150 numbers senior to me. Starcheck you must have been seat locked in senior equipment because an Ultra Captain bid went just 1 slot senior to me prior to the TA being announced. I have a half dozen or so 400XP PIC's junior to me, those guys won the airplane lottery when they were hired. (Prior to the current contract the seat locks prevented you from taking a Captain's seat except in your own fleet). The problem right now is most the PIC bids are for Excels or better. The last Sovereign bid only had 1 SIC upgrade, the rest were PIC's upgrading from junior equipment. If they ever get around to putting out a significant number of Ultra/Encore/400XP bids I think we'll upgrade at that time. I'm guessing another 4 to 6 months for me.

AirBear

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks for the additional info, 208 and AB. I think pilots and their families are better served for planning their future with a conservative outlook over the best-case scenario.

Same with the tie, Archie. You can always take it off, but if everyone else is wearing one and you're not then you do look like you're not as professional. I'm just passing on the experience a pilot shared with me. He wished he'd worn one. The others did.

Best Wishes,
NJW

 

[lawfly]

All NJA pilots "commute". You can live within walking distance of your domicile airport and you will still fly the airlines possibly clear across the country, even to another domicile airport (e.g., LAX to CMH) , to begin your tour. And potentially airline clear across the country at the end of your tour. As for the "expensive cities" pilots are now "forced" to live in, the farmhouse is not for everyone, either.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Increase in F/O pay will come at the cost of the HBA and or HBA system.

Alot more money and commute.

or

HBA's and take less money.

This will be the battle in the next contract.

 

[brokeflyer]

Yeah all the upgrades are from PIC's moving from one fleet to another. Not many SIC upgrades.......I would estimate 4-5 yrs minimum.

As the company adds new planes.......680's and larger......those will go to the senior Ultra and XL guys....and a few others. It will take A LOT of planes to get some movement.