S. 65 and H.R. 1125 still alive (age 65)

[Flopgut]

Neal: Check your PMs

....Ooops, your box is full.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal: Check your PMs

....Ooops, your box is full.

Fixed, sorry!

 

[Freight Dog]

Flop... PCL128 is an ALPA newbie. He's a young, ambitious guy who hasn't been around long enough to know better.

At Aloha, we have a pilot who was elected and served as EVP at ALPA while he was at his previous carrier... Let's just say that his experiences and views of ALPA National and especially ALPA leadership... at least under Duane Woerth(less) differ significantly from those of our esteemed resident ALPA cheerleader from Pinnacle.

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

This week's Blitz was one of the most productive we have ever had. Thanks to the efforts of over 40 pilots who attended no fewer than 70 meetings, we now have over 100 bipartisan cosponsors on the House and Senate bills. Most importantly, we got the good news that the legislative effort has really gone wheels up this week. On Thursday, the last day of the Blitz, the Senate Commerce Committee introduced the FAA Authorization Bill which includes the complete S.65 language included in Section 706. Earlier this week Aviation Subcommittee Chairman Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) and ranking member Trent Lott (R-MS) signed off on the language being in the FAA bill (The Aviation Investment and Modernization Act of 2007). We expect this bill to begin to move very quickly. The Senate Commerce Committee will markup and vote on the bill the week of the May 14. A lot of hard work by our bill champions, SWAPA and others made this possible.



Make no mistake; this effort could still be sidetracked. It is critical that that we proceed very carefully. It is important to express our thanks and our complete satisfaction to our champions, and all Members of Congress that this provision has been included as a part of the Senate FAA Authorization bill and to urge the House to include the same language in its draft of the bill. Many staff members-- including those who have been opposed to change in the past, have commented about the impact of our lobbying efforts-- and the importance of keeping the pressure on S.65 and H.R. 1125; Boots on the ground = results. We will follow-up with a plan for our next blitz shortly, but it probably would be a good idea for some folks to plan be here the week of the 14th when the committee marks up the bill to make the rounds in support of the effort.

This is from the SWAPA lobbyist, time to start calling to get this bs sidetracked

 

[humuakalaka]

As a young FO (only 34) I generally see getting to work 5 more years as a good thing, but I know I don't have the whole picture.

You are 34. I am 35. You may or may not see "getting to work 5 more years as a good thing" 25 years from now. If age 65 passes, then it won't really matter what you think. You will be forced, due to financial reasons, to work five more years to compensate for the time value of money lost as a result of your extended period to upgrade. I don't know about you, but I'd like to have the financial ability to retire at 60, as opposed to having to work until 65 because I haven't been able to build a sufficient retirement nest egg.

Then again, today's growing airlines could be tomorrow's BK queen.

Exactly. What will your airline be doing 25-30 years from now? I don't know either. However, the greedy senior pilots are pretty certain that their current airline, where they sit atop their respective seniority lists, will still be around for the next five years or so. It's a sure thing for them.

On the other hand, in exchange for giving them the ability to fly an extra five years, the greedy senior pilots are asking us to finance their extended work lives with a significant delay to our upgrades. AND, on top of that, they are asking us to make the shaky bet that our current airline will still be around to fly for when it comes time for us to work past 60. Tell me again who gets the better deal? It's entirely possible that us FO's could get shafted at both ends in this deal: A) our upgrades are delayed by two to five years with an accompanying large impact on our career savings due to the time value of money, and B) when it comes time at the end of our careers to recoup the money lost due to the slower upgrade, our airline very well might not be around. This is fair how?

Yes, things are complicated and more importantly timing is everything. While, the age 65 does make the rich get richer and the poor get poorer - this if for a limited pilot population.

"Limited pilot population"? You mean, like all of the pilots currently hired at an airline? This effects everyone. The more junior you are, the larger the impact (in general). If you have already upgraded, then it should not effect you at all financially but, depending on your seniority, it could have a large effect on your quality of life. If you are 55-60, then this is pretty much money for you.

There are only three viable solutions to 65 that I can think of:
1) don't do it
2) determine a date after which all pilots hired after that date can work until 65. Write into the legislation or rule that all pilots forced to retire at 60 have hiring preference at their current airline if it is still hiring when they retire. Therefore, virtually all pilots would be able to continue working until 65. The only caveat would be some might have to go over to the FO seat and start over on the seniority list from 60 to 65.
3) raise FO pay rates to eliminate the impact of the delayed upgrade on their career earnings and savings.

 

[humuakalaka]

***Whoops-Double post***

 

[Flopgut]

Great post Humuakalaka.

It IS possible we will get shafted on both ends and it will more than likely be from these same pilots. Here is an example of a very real potential problem we may face sooner than later: Age 65 may not work from a physical standpoint. Airline pilots may not hold up too well to the change physically and it may create a backlash from employers and insurance providers. This will result in some proposed medical requirement changes. Now, of course, ALPA has said this won't happen, and we would all be surprised if they didn't resist on our behalf. But what if our illustrious leader were made aware the changes were going to happen anyway? Just like the age 65 rule supposedly is being occasioned? You can fully expect that ALPA will then be interested in grandfathering everyone around the age of...say 52-53, maybe even 49 (whatever age he can get 51%) into the old criteria. JP [ALPA] isn't interested in grandfathering the age 65 rule in some way, but you can bet he will when it comes to any physical requirements!

 

[Flopgut]

Flop... PCL128 is an ALPA newbie. He's a young, ambitious guy who hasn't been around long enough to know better.

He's lost, but at least he's making good time!

I tell you though, thank God for guys like him. I hope that as he learns the finer points of this business he doesn't withdraw enthusiasm.

I'd probably vote for him. In fact, I'd wager that if we had 10 guys like him running ALPA the entire business would be better off! He'd take better care of Prater than Prater is going to take care of him!

 

[Huck]

It's the ultimate "Win-Win" situation.

On the day the flag drops on this disaster:

- An F/O with young kids and a stay-at-home wife will get five more years at the same job for the same pay;

- An S/O will get to look at the panel for 5 more years for the same pay;

- A regional captain raising babies on $45k a year gets another five years to enjoy it;

- A military guy who wants to leave the sandbox and the SAM's behind for his dream job gets to wait another five years;

- A regional F/O who is stacking lumber at Home Depot on his off days gets another five years of explaining to his girlfriend that this really is a good career;

- A CFI gets 5 more years (if he survives) of bug-smashing;

- A CFI-wannabee gets to sell cars, or insurance, or frame houses for 5 more years.


Think I'm exaggerating? O. K. then change each line to 4 years. Make it any better? There's only so many jobs folks. It's a zero-sum deal.

 

[Freight Dog]

He's lost, but at least he's making good time!

I tell you though, thank God for guys like him. I hope that as he learns the finer points of this business he doesn't withdraw enthusiasm.

I'd probably vote for him. In fact, I'd wager that if we had 10 guys like him running ALPA the entire business would be better off! He'd take better care of Prater than Prater is going to take care of him!

AMEN Brother....

 

[HA25]

On the day the flag drops on this disaster:

- An F/O with young kids and a stay-at-home wife will get five more years at the same job for the same pay;

- An S/O will get to look at the panel for 5 more years for the same pay;

- A regional captain raising babies on $45k a year gets another five years to enjoy it;

- A military guy who wants to leave the sandbox and the SAM's behind for his dream job gets to wait another five years;

- A regional F/O who is stacking lumber at Home Depot on his off days gets another five years of explaining to his girlfriend that this really is a good career;

- A CFI gets 5 more years (if he survives) of bug-smashing;

- A CFI-wannabee gets to sell cars, or insurance, or frame houses for 5 more years.


Think I'm exaggerating? O. K. then change each line to 4 years. Make it any better? There's only so many jobs folks. It's a zero-sum deal.

Well said... with thousands of furloughed pilots out there, this IS NOT the time for age 65.. someday maybe, NOT now..