RVSM and the 135 freight world

[Buckeye]

Does anyone know how this might affect Ameristar, Cherry Air, Grandair, Usa Jet, Kalitta, and some of the others that fly Lears and Falcons? Anyone have any legitiment knowledge of what is going to happen at their respective companies? Thanx

 

[jumppilot03]

Just curious how the new RVSM requirement is going to effect companies such as Kitty Hawk, Champion, UPS and others flying the old 727. Are the avionics and autopilots in these airplanes already compliant? Thanks

 

[Rick1128]

RVSM

Instead of looking at the price tag for RVSM look at what it will cost to replace that equipment with an RVSM aircraft. LR25 250K + 200K for RVSM and A/P = 450K. LR35 1.2M plus 200K for RVSM = 1.4M. The numbers just don't add up. As for the FJ44 conversion the numbers are even worst. LR25 250K plus 1.2m for conversion = 1.45M. And as a converted aircraft its value will not equal the price of conversion. So I believe you will see very few of the FJ44 conversions.

Goodrich/L-3 Avionics support the FC110 a/p. Part of the RVSM mod is having L-3 overhaul the a/p. The early ones may not take converted digital inputs very well. But there are STCs for aftermarket a/p's that will accept digitial inputs.

I do not believe that RVSM will kill the 20 series. What will kill the aircraft is

1. Cost of engine overhauls. Presently averaging over 400K each.

2. Lack of parts. Many of the manufacturers of Lear parts are now out of business or have sold their Lear programs to others who are not actively supporting the aircraft.

3. Lack of support from Learjet. Basic attitude at Learjet these days is 'If its got tip tanks and especially if its got the small engines, We didn't make it'. They have also chased off almost all of the people who made Learjet, Learjet.

 

[uscpilot]

I realize that this does not have anything to do with RVSM, but it does pertain to the longevity of the lear 20 series. I have heard that there is a mod for the lear 20 where the engines are swapped for the same engine that goes on the citation CJ 2, I think. Is there any truth to this. More importantly is it likely. I cant imagine that it is since most of the companies that operate 20's will have enough trouble with RVSM let alone putting new engines on. Although they might allow the aircraft to operate and profite below 290.
Thanks

 

[Rick1128]

USC,

You are refering to the FJ44 engines. but at a cost of at least $1.2 million just for the conversion, I personally do not believe that there will be many takers.

It has been my experience that almost all converted aircraft do not increase in value enough to pay for the conversion. And sometime even decrease the value of the aircraft.

Why do that conversion when you can buy a LR35 for the same money or less? And since they will take the trunk tank out, will reduce the range to less than the 35's range.

The numbers just don't add up.

 

[uscpilot]

Man is my face red (this must be how Whirlwind feels only on a smaller scale). When you mentioned the FJ44 earlier I had no idea what they were. While I am asking stupid questions here is another. I have heard that some RVSM upgrades are avionics only, and dont include the a/p. How is this possible since any lear 20 or 30 was built before RVSM was ever thought about?
Thanks

 

[Rick1128]

In reality all RVSM mods are mostly avionics. Some more so than others. All aircraft being setup for RVSM have the aircraft skin mapped to check on the accuracy of the pitot/static system. The the system is upgraded to meet the requirements of RVSM.

In the Lear 35/36 mod it depends on the Autopilot installed. The 530 a/p requires no changes for RVSM. The FC200 requires that the aircraft get the same pitot/static system as the FC530 a/p. Rosemont pitot tubes. The fuselege static ports and the shoulder ports are removed. The altimiters are changed to a electronic altimiters with a standby altimiter being added. The ADC is changed from a analog to a digital unit, plus another unit is added with switching to allow the each ADC uit to drive both sides of the instrument panel. Since the FC200 is an analog autopilot, a converter is added to the system to alow it to accept digital information.

Flew a LR36 with the RVSM STC installed. Both altimiters were within 10 feet of each other.

It is my understanding that the LR20 STC is basicly bootstrapped off of the LR35 STC. Goodrich is supporting the FC110 autopilot and claims that they can bring it into the performance requirements of RVSM. But there are STCs for Lears to put newer autopilots in the aircraft, that will accept digitial information. I have been told the biggest problem with the FC110 is that the static system variances due to attitude and speed changes. And my experience with the Lear agrees with that.