Rumors Running Again on AA Pilots About JetBlue Merger

[sligo1]

These rumors keep going on and on but the APA board meeting is convinced of a big announcement regarding AA growth and offensive action. Who knows but I think something is up at AMR.

 

[Otto77]

Well that will not help all of us in the pool at JB

 

[Saluki Dawg]

A Merger between AA and B6 makes absolutely no sense. The slots divestitures at JFK alone would make the deal unpallatable from AA's perspective, not to mention having completely different Terminals as well. If DOJ would sign off on this deal without requiring a major slot divestiture, then maybe, but I just don't see that happening. Either way, with the number of pilots on furlough from AA, this is the last kind of merger I would want to see as a B6 pilot.

 

[Beantown]

A Merger between AA and B6 makes absolutely no sense. The slots divestitures at JFK alone would make the deal unpallatable from AA's perspective, not to mention having completely different Terminals as well. If DOJ would sign off on this deal without requiring a major slot divestiture, then maybe, but I just don't see that happening. Either way, with the number of pilots on furlough from AA, this is the last kind of merger I would want to see as a B6 pilot.

I agree with both of your points. Makes no sense (JB is expensive, we would lose money the monent they bought us and added there cost structure, both with large overlap in JFK, South FLa and BOS, ect) AA buying JB would also be the worst thing possible for the pilots ALPA or no ALPA.
I think most of this stuff is dreamed up on the JB board by guys trying to scare the Union fence sitters to vote for ALPA.

 

[chignutsak]

Think of the fate of carriers swallowed up by AA in the past - you have good reason to be frightened.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Poor B6 pilots would get stapled BELOW the TWA furloughees. Yikes.

 

[msmb]

American is so poor right now they can't even pay attention......they are trying to keep their heads above water now, who would be crazy enough to loan them even more money? Their debt/equity ratio is about 138....scary to say the least. Good luck.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Ever heard of stock swap deals? It certainly could happen, no matter how expensive B6 stock is.

 

[OurMoney1]

American is selling debt to pay their electric bills. Reminds me of USAir in 2001 burning the office furniture to heat the place. Anyone with half an egg head would see this is insanity speaking. I have heard that SWA made a run last summer on B6, and Delta has even been rumored to have approached them twice in past years but the AA rumor is fiction at best. Too much overlap to get it into fruition without divesting the kingdom and no cash at AA HQ except in Arpey's parachute pack. B6 pilots can rest for another economic cycle; the numbers this time around dont work!

 

[Fubijaakr]

Reminds me of USAir in 2001 burning the office furniture to heat the place. Anyone with half an egg head would see this is insanity speaking.... B6 pilots can rest for another economic cycle; the numbers this time around dont work!

And within a couple years, LCC merged with AWA and look at the results of that for the pilot groups. What a disaster. If AA grabs B6 the trauma will be TITANIC.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The funny thing is that AA and B6 have been getting rid of the route overlap they have out of JFK over the last few years. Ever wonder why they are doing that?

 

[PuffDriver]

The funny thing is that AA and B6 have been getting rid of the route overlap they have out of JFK over the last few years. Ever wonder why they are doing that?

About the only way AA can become a player in NY again.

I wonder if the jblue pilots would have any claim to any kind of job? That might get real interesting, real quick.

How many jblue pilots are there and how many AA guys are on furlough?

 

[OurMoney1]

The funny thing is that AA and B6 have been getting rid of the route overlap they have out of JFK over the last few years. Ever wonder why they are doing that?

It's called competition.

AA is cutting their losses and walking away. And it's on routes that historically have weak yields and are largely mileage award fliers (Florida and the Carribean).

Dont kid yourself, your forcing fiction on us, AA is in a fight with itself and sitting under a house of cards. As said earlier AA is in a race to get its house in order, no board of directors from sea to shining sea would approve an acquisition under such disaray.

 

[Taco Rocket]

As said earlier AA is in a race to get its house in order, no board of directors from sea to shining sea would approve an acquisition under such disaray.

But they may approve a takeover...

 

[jonjuan]

About the only way AA can become a player in NY again.

I wonder if the jblue pilots would have any claim to any kind of job? That might get real interesting, real quick.

How many jblue pilots are there and how many AA guys are on furlough?

Many AA furloughees are at jblu. Now do they play the game of accepting recall, even though they will be swinging gear, or do they stay and hope for a favorable sli?

 

[OurMoney1]

But they may approve a takeover...

Jetblue doesnt have the talent nor the experience to jump into the AMR ring. All the B6 jumpseaters I see every month all say the same thing, their management team is weak. They average 1 melt down a year and are plagued with cultural struggles. Barger was schooled at the now famous NEW YORK AIR and would drown trying to figure out the AMR jigsaw puzzle.

Parker has a better shot at taking AA over than the beginners called Jetblue.

 

[n757st]

No one here has heard about Mckaskle Bond? If we merge so be it, but b6 pilots will not be stapled. It will go to an arbitrator, and that person or persons will decide where the b6 pilots are placed in the master seniority list. Since 2001 the general rule has been to place all furloughed pilots below ANY active pilot. The reality of a merged list would likely be b6 captains being merged relative seniority with Americans 737/md 80 captains, and b6 fos being merged relative seniority with Americans md80/ 737 first officers. Unfortunately, much like the am west LCC merger, and the what is likely to come from the ual merger, is that amr/ twa pilots furloughed at time of closing of the deal would be placed at the bottom of the merged list.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Its really easy to do. Its the same plan SWA may have for AAI pilots.

How many Airbii/E190s does AA have...zero.

Operate B6 separately. As the new 737s arrive, get rid of the Airbus/E190s and furlough the pilots to the bottom of the AA list. Bring AA furloughees back to fly the new AA 737s.

SWA could do the very same thing to the AAI pilots. As the AAI 737s roll out of Renton, assign them to SWA. Put SWA pilots in those seats. Reduce the Guadalupe Holdings' 717s and furlough the pilots. Offer the furloughees interviews at SWA.

Pretty nice, neat way to circumvent Bond/McCaskill if you ask me. If you never merge the lists, you never activate the legislation.

 

[curtaindriver]

Jetblue doesnt have the talent nor the experience to jump into the AMR ring. All the B6 jumpseaters I see every month all say the same thing, their management team is weak. They average 1 melt down a year and are plagued with cultural struggles. Barger was schooled at the now famous NEW YORK AIR and would drown trying to figure out the AMR jigsaw puzzle.

Parker has a better shot at taking AA over than the beginners called Jetblue.

Profitable in 2008 with 147/oil, profit in 2009 during Great Recession, huge profits last year............and small profit 1st quarter this year with oil........I'd say the "beginners" at JetBlue have a pretty good clue on how to run an airline. Pilots in need of a union? Absolutely!!! But, labor relations aside, these guys know how to run an airline.

CD

 

[OurMoney1]

Its really easy to do. Its the same plan SWA may have for AAI pilots.

How many Airbii/E190s does AA have...zero.

Operate B6 separately. As the new 737s arrive, get rid of the Airbus/E190s and furlough the pilots to the bottom of the AA list. Bring AA furloughees back to fly the new AA 737s.

SWA could do the very same thing to the AAI pilots. As the AAI 737s roll out of Renton, assign them to SWA. Put SWA pilots in those seats. Reduce the Guadalupe Holdings' 717s and furlough the pilots. Offer the furloughees interviews at SWA.

Pretty nice, neat way to circumvent Bond/McCaskill if you ask me. If you never merge the lists, you never activate the legislation.

Lofty at best. There are several AMR analyst reports floating around on the internet. I would highly suggest you read one. AMR is constitutionally in trouble. They would like to blame labor but the facts are in. They have made some critical errors recently and instead of addressing them they are continuing to make more.

Lofty........very lofty.

 

[Fubijaakr]

And you don't think combining AA and B6 would be a mistake. It would be a TITANIC mistake and therefore extremely likely.

 

[localizer11]

No one here has heard about Mckaskle Bond? If we merge so be it, but b6 pilots will not be stapled. It will go to an arbitrator, and that person or persons will decide where the b6 pilots are placed in the master seniority list. Since 2001 the general rule has been to place all furloughed pilots below ANY active pilot. The reality of a merged list would likely be b6 captains being merged relative seniority with Americans 737/md 80 captains, and b6 fos being merged relative seniority with Americans md80/ 737 first officers. Unfortunately, much like the am west LCC merger, and the what is likely to come from the ual merger, is that amr/ twa pilots furloughed at time of closing of the deal would be placed at the bottom of the merged list.

If AMR buys Jetblue, JB pilots will be offered a choice:

1) staple at the bottom of AA seniority list.

2) PEA severance package.

Our PEA language does not require an intergration. It's up to the aquiring carrier to decide if they want to merge operations or employee groups. AMR can sign a side letter with APA allowing AMR to operate Jetblue as a wholly-owned subsidiary for 1-2 years. During that time B6 aircraft would be transfered to the AA without the B6 pilots.

Think Bond/McCaskill will save us? Think again. The NMB must rule that AA and B6 are a single carrier to trigger Bond-McCaskilll. AMR/APA lawyers will frame the deal to avoid single carrier status. AA and Eagle are not considered a single carrier by the NMB. JB pilots can't petition the NMB becasue we have no recognized bargaining representative outside of JB management. Bond/McCaskill will not save us.

 

[n757st]

If AMR buys Jetblue, JB pilots will be offered a choice:

1) staple at the bottom of AA seniority list.

2) PEA severance package.

Our PEA language does not require an intergration. It's up to the aquiring carrier to decide if they want to merge operations or employee groups. AMR can sign a side letter with APA allowing AMR to operate Jetblue as a wholly-owned subsidiary for 1-2 years. During that time B6 aircraft would be transfered to the AA without the B6 pilots.

Think Bond/McCaskill will save us? Think again. The NMB must rule that AA and B6 are a single carrier to trigger Bond-McCaskilll. AMR/APA lawyers will frame the deal to avoid single carrier status. AA and Eagle are not considered a single carrier by the NMB. JB pilots can't petition the NMB becasue we have no recognized bargaining representative outside of JB management. Bond/McCaskill will not save us.

Uh huh. Amr would love to lay us all off so they could spend 100 million dollars to train a bunch of furloughed pilots who are all at the top of their pay scales when they have a group of pilots trained, proficient, and ready to go. Oh, and heck, if republic was ruled a single air carrier with frontier then what can they possibly argue to say we are not a single carrier? By then Alpa will be on property, to hopefully fight for our jobs.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

I think AM and BM sort of stipulate that no furloughed pilot can bump an active pilot.

Poor B6 pilots would get stapled BELOW the TWA furloughees. Yikes.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I think AM and BM sort of stipulate that no furloughed pilot can bump an active pilot.

As the previous poster pointed out, that only comes into play IF the NMB determines they are a single carrier.

 

[SizzleChest]

Uh huh. Amr would love to lay us all off so they could spend 100 million dollars to train a bunch of furloughed pilots who are all at the top of their pay scales when they have a group of pilots trained, proficient, and ready to go. Oh, and heck, if republic was ruled a single air carrier with frontier then what can they possibly argue to say we are not a single carrier? By then Alpa will be on property, to hopefully fight for our jobs.

Republic was single carrier because, among other things, they had the same VP staff on CEO, COO, CFO, HR department, recruiting mechanisms, etc. Many of the management functions were handled by the exact same people. Then you factor in flight schedules, city pairs, etc. and you have a good case for single carrier status. That was how Republic got SCS. If AMR engineered it remain mostly separate and duplicated, B6 would not get SCS.

 

[n757st]

Republic was single carrier because, among other things, they had the same VP staff on CEO, COO, CFO, HR department, recruiting mechanisms, etc. Many of the management functions were handled by the exact same people. Then you factor in flight schedules, city pairs, etc. and you have a good case for single carrier status. That was how Republic got SCS. If AMR engineered it remain mostly separate and duplicated, B6 would not get SCS.

Ok, I can see what you are saying... don't agree with it, but I see your point.

Can someone tell me a major airline aquisition or merger within the last 15 years where the pilots were not integrated into a single carrier? -The regionals do not count.

 

[Flyby1206]

A Merger between AA and B6 makes absolutely no sense. The slots divestitures at JFK alone would make the deal unpallatable from AA's perspective,

The DOT looks like they are close to allowing the DAL/US Slot swap in LGA to happen, that would give DAL roughly 50% of LGA slots. If AA/B6 happened that would be about the same percentage. Im not saying it will happen, but I wouldnt rely on DOT to shoot it down or require any slots to be given up.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Ok, I can see what you are saying... don't agree with it, but I see your point.

Can someone tell me a major airline aquisition or merger within the last 15 years where the pilots were not integrated into a single carrier? -The regionals do not count.

These were integrated, but would you like to be involved in ANY of them?

LCC/AWA
AA/TWA
CAL/PeoplExpress
SWA/Morris

And of course....

Look what Republic did to Midwest Express.

I'm fairly confident APA would figure out a way to keep things separate until the B6 planes were gone and the B6 pilots furloughed.

 

[n757st]

These were integrated, but would you like to be involved in ANY of them?

LCC/AWA
AA/TWA
CAL/PeoplExpress
SWA/Morris

And of course....

Look what Republic did to Midwest Express.

I'm fairly confident APA would figure out a way to keep things separate until the B6 planes were gone and the B6 pilots furloughed.

Only one of these was after McCaskle Bond, and that one was done via arbitrator, which would again be required in a merger between B6 and AMR. Midwest was drawn down before the merger even happened, though I agree they got a screw job. I'll say it again, AMR is not going to spend upwards of 50 to 100 million dollars to retrain all their pilots to fly our aircraft when we are already trained and proficient. Despite what AMR pilots think, they don't run the show, Amr executives do and they report to the shareholders. If it makes financial sense to fire all us b6 pilot and pay us at least a year of severance, then maybe they will consider it. I cant think of a senario where that makes any kind of financial sense.