Rumor: USair management offers APA a deal?

[ASADFW7]

Is that like cold pizza?

 

[eaglesview]

There is no need to court USAPA in this deal they have no say. However IF such rumored payrates and contract provisions were true (which I'm dubious about personally), US Air pilots east and west would trip all over themselves to sign a joint contract whether it's NIC, DOH, or anything in between. I think that's what DP could be counting on? Remember the nic is not so damaging to the east when it's diluted by 11,000 American pilots. DOH across the board would be a disaster for the west but IMHO there's no chance of that.

you may be correct but I would bet the 11,000 AA pilots (do they really have that many???) along with the east would jump on DOH. Remember a large portion of the EAst would be retiring there for the DOH really does not pose a threat to AA pilots it's more of a threat to AWA. I hope they work it out. It would be good for us all to raise East and West wages.

 

[ackattacker]

you may be correct but I would bet the 11,000 AA pilots (do they really have that many???) along with the east would jump on DOH. Remember a large portion of the EAst would be retiring there for the DOH really does not pose a threat to AA pilots it's more of a threat to AWA. I hope they work it out. It would be good for us all to raise East and West wages.

Not 11,000, I was incorrect, according to APC they have 10,734 pilots but 1,685 are furloughed. Most of the furloughed are never coming back. It's still a large number.

 

[vixin]

AMR Unions Said Prepared to Back US Airways Takeover Offer


By Zachary R. Mider, Jeffrey McCracken and Mary Schlangenstein - Apr 19, 2012 1:09 PM CT
American Airlines’ three largest unions have agreed to support a possible takeover offer from US Airways Group Inc. (LCC) rather than remain independent, three people familiar with the matter said.
The groups plan to say that they believe they can reach better terms with US Airways than what they expect if American parent AMR Corp. (AAMRQ) exits bankruptcy by itself, according to the people, who asked not to be identified because the talks are private.

AMR Unions Said Prepared to Support US Airways Takeover

The labor consensus has emerged as Fort Worth, Texas-based American prepares to ask a federal bankruptcy court on April 23 for permission to void existing union contracts and impose new terms in its quest to cut 13,000 union jobs. A ruling on the request may not occur until early June.
US Airways has confirmed hiring advisers to assess a bid for American, the third-largest U.S. airline, and has discussed a takeover plan with some creditors and their advisers, people familiar with the matter said in March.
American’s plan to chop $1.25 billion from labor spending has aggravated labor tensions predating its Nov. 29 bankruptcy filing. The Allied Pilots Association, Association of Professional Flight Attendants and Transport Workers Union represent about 48,000 employees at the airline, whose workforce numbered about 73,800 when the job cuts were announced in February.
US Airways Shares

US Airways extended earlier gains, rising 7.9 percent to $8.85 at 2:02 p.m. in New York. The shares of the fifth-biggest U.S. airline rose 62 percent this year through yesterday.
Tom Hoban, a spokesman for the APA, declined to comment today when asked whether the union would back an offer by Tempe, Arizona-based US Airways. Calls to the flight attendants and to the TWU weren’t immediately returned.
The three unions said in an April 13 statement that they “must exercise due diligence and examine every possibility” to protect the jobs and retirement plans of members. The groups urged elected officials who spoke out against a possible merger bid to “withhold judgment about any industry consolidation that could involve our airline until all of the facts become known.”
Todd Lehmacher, a US Airways spokesman, declined to comment. American’s Bruce Hicks said the company wasn’t elaborating on a letter to employees earlier today in which Chief Executive Officer Tom Horton said “misleading information” may be circulating about the airline’s future.
“There continues to be much takeover speculation in the press fueled by those who seek to serve their own agendas,” Horton said. “I expect this to continue and to escalate. Naturally, there are many who do not want American to succeed.”
While American will seek court approval to reject existing contracts, it remains in talks with the TWU to reach a consensual agreement on concessions. It also has been meeting with the APA, while discussions with the flight attendants have been suspended.
To contact the reporters on this story: Zachary R. Mider in New York at [email protected]; Jeffrey McCracken in New York at [email protected]; Mary Schlangenstein in Dallas at [email protected]

 

[fam62c]

you may be correct but I would bet the 11,000 AA pilots (do they really have that many???) along with the east would jump on DOH. Remember a large portion of the EAst would be retiring there for the DOH really does not pose a threat to AA pilots it's more of a threat to AWA. I hope they work it out. It would be good for us all to raise East and West wages.

Fences are the answer, they can make sure nobody on property (furloughed is furloughed, tough but that's the way it is) goes backwards and protect retirement movement for individual groups. Once retirements start to move at East and AMR it will solve a lot of seniority problems if this combination happens.

All any pilot really has is his/her seat/equipment /longevity/base and known upward movement from retirements at his/her company, that's what needs to be protected. If you retain these things and end up no worse off than you were that's about as fair as it gets. Growth that hasn't happened yet is never assured. Even the Nic award could have been sold with the right fences in place, the problem would solve itself over time with attrition.

You can have a list with individual sub-groups being promoted (from native retirements) at different rates for a period of time, eventually everything would be back in order more or less. Straight DOH or straight relative seniority is probably not going to work without fences and adjustments unless you have two carriers with near identical fleets and demographics. The problem with most of these situations is lack of creativity, flexibility and innovation by both arbitrators and the parties involved. The parties get locked into positions and look at how things have been done in the past rather than what COULD be done.

Pilots are often their own worst enemies and failure to explore unconventional compromises results in bad arbitration awards that cause resentment for decades because the groups never "own" the third-party results.

 

[On Your Six]

Did one of your 4 cats tell you this rumor?

WAS I RIGHT DON JUAN??? SAY IT! ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG.

AMR Unions Said Prepared to Back US Airways Takeover Offer


By Zachary R. Mider, Jeffrey McCracken and Mary Schlangenstein - Apr 19, 2012 11:09 AM MT

American's three largest unions have agreed to support a possible takeover offer from US Airways rather than remain independent, three people familiar with the matter said.
The groups plan to say that they believe they can reach better terms with USAir than what they expect if American parent AMR exits bankruptcy by itself, according to the people, who asked not to be identified because the talks are private.

AMR Unions Said Prepared to Support US Airways Takeover

Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg


The labor consensus has Texas-based American prepares to ask a federal BK Court on April 23 for permission to void existing union contracts and impose new terms in its quest to cut 13,000 union jobs. A ruling on the request may not occur until early June.

US Airways has confirmed hiring advisers to assess a bid for American, the third-largest U.S. airline, and has discussed a takeover plan with some creditors and their advisers, people familiar with the matter said in March.
American’s plan to chop $1.25 billion from labor spending has aggravated labor tensions predating its Nov. 29 bankruptcy filing. The APA, Association of Professional Flight Attendants and Transport Workers Union represent about 48,000 employees at the airline, whose workforce numbered about 73,800 when the job cuts were announced in February.


US Airways Shares

US Airways extended earlier gains, rising 7.9 percent to $8.85 at 2:02 p.m. in New York. The shares of the fifth-biggest U.S. airline rose 62 percent this year through yesterday.

Tom Hoban, a spokesman for the APA, declined to comment today when asked whether the union would back an offer by Tempe, Arizona-based US Airways. Calls to the flight attendants and to the TWU weren’t immediately returned.

The three unions said in an April 13 statement that they“must exercise due diligence and examine every possibility” to protect the jobs and retirement plans of members. The groups urged elected officials who spoke out against a possible merger bid to “withhold judgment about any industry consolidation that could involve our airline until all of the facts become known.”


Todd Lehmacher, a US Airways spokesman, declined to comment. American’s Bruce Hicks said the company wasn’t elaborating on a letter to employees earlier today in which Chief Executive Officer Tom Hortonsaid “misleading information” may be circulating about the airline’s future.
“There continues to be much takeover speculation in the press fueled by those who seek to serve their own agendas,”Horton said. “I expect this to continue and to escalate. Naturally, there are many who do not want American to succeed.”

While American will seek court approval to reject existing contracts, it remains in talks with the TWU to reach a consensual agreement on concessions. It also has been meeting with the APA, while discussions with the flight attendants have been suspended.


To contact the reporters on this story: Zachary R. Mider in New York Mary Schlangenstein in Dallas
To contact the editors responsible for this story: Ed Dufner at




Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[vetrider]

Just put in a clause that east pilots get to determine seniority. Then we all live happily ever after, because they know better than anyone, what will make a list work. Just ask one of them. Or eastiesview. They'll tell you.

 

[On Your Six]

Just put in a clause that east pilots get to determine seniority. Then we all live happily ever after, because they know better than anyone, what will make a list work. Just ask one of them. Or eastiesview. They'll tell you.

I think a lot will ride on Judge Silver's eventual verdict on what should happen with the binding arbitration and USAPA takeover. Then I bet the company says follow the Nic Award (most probable), and you can have the raise. Those Easties should NOT have gone along with binding arbitration if they didn't want to follow the award. Do you play poker, put your money down in front of the dealer, and then take it back after you lose? NO, no you don't. Arbitration is a gamble, too.

Then, if this happens, the APA will take over, and peace will return after another SLI followed by a 7 year fence on AA bases and equipment. (if the rumor is true)


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[Guppiedriver]

Just put in a clause that east pilots get to determine seniority. Then we all live happily ever after, because they know better than anyone, what will make a list work. Just ask one of them. Or eastiesview. They'll tell you.

Eastiesview....lol!

 

[outerlimits]

Better idea would be to recall all the furloughed AA pilots and kick the easties to the curb.

I am sure there is a way to get rid of them.

 

[dicko]

More imortantly:
Also think that one of our Capts. scored a 2v1 with F/A's from above flight. They were pretty attractive, IMO.

Reginald and Roberto are reportedly very pleased with their latest conquest.

 

[B-atch]

Better idea would be to recall all the furloughed AA pilots and kick the easties to the curb.

I am sure there is a way to get rid of them.

Only if Delta liquidates and YOU submit a resume at the new AA. You Delta boyz think that pedestal is soo solid. Get back to me in 10 years and we'll share notes...what an a...............

 

[outerlimits]

Only if Delta liquidates and YOU submit a resume at the new AA. You Delta boyz think that pedestal is soo solid. Get back to me in 10 years and we'll share notes...what an a...............

Dude, if Parker could pull off kicking all the easties to the curb. He would go from being known as a drunk to an icon in the industry .

If I was him that is what I would be aiming to do.
There has to be over a 1000 ways to can an eastie

 

[Hpilot]

Better idea would be to recall all the furloughed AA pilots and kick the easties to the curb.

I am sure there is a way to get rid of them.

Well hopefully that doesn't happen, because if the APA can throw the east under the bus like that, what's to stop them from throwing the west under too? In the long term I thing a merger with AA will be a good thing, if it happens.

 

[fr8doggie]

Reginald and Roberto are reportedly very pleased with their latest conquest.

When I made the orignal post I never considered that angle. I guess my mind just doesn't swing that way. Unlike quite a few of you.... Most of the replies were pretty funny. Anyway, they appeared to be two attractive females of about forty years vintage. All I can say is when you are 53, 40ish looks pretty good. And, they were well kept. Their own pilot boys abandoned them, so I guess my co-worker saw targets of opportunity. I had an early go so I bailed. Hope it all worked out well for everyone.

 

[Turtle21]

Dude, if Parker could pull off kicking all the easties to the curb. He would go from being known as a drunk to an icon in the industry .

If I was him that is what I would be aiming to do.
There has to be over a 1000 ways to can an eastie

I suppose you have a portrait or Lorenzo over your fireplace mantel and a bronze bust of him in your courtyard?

Have you consider how much it will cost you to add parker memorabilia to your collection?

 

[Metrojet]

Not sure which litter box your picking up your information. Parker hasn't approached his own union so I think that says a lot about how accurate this whole thread is.

St Nic -

Not so sure if DP hasn't talked to our president and vice president elect - remember they went out to PHX last week with the BPR - I probably believe that the the current APA president was out there also

Metrojet

 

[outerlimits]

I suppose you have a portrait or Lorenzo over your fireplace mantel and a bronze bust of him in your courtyard?

Have you consider how much it will cost you to add parker memorabilia to your collection?

Do not put the Eastern Airines pilots in the same class as the US east pilots


The easties made there bed, now there is a chance they might have to sleep in it.

Do not shoot the messenger .

 

[Turtle21]

Do not put the Eastern Airines pilots in the same class as the US east pilots


The easties made there bed, now there is a chance they might have to sleep in it.

Do not shoot the messenger .

You slurp Lorenzo and Parker, while sneering at fellow pilots. Who pissed in your Weaties? :lol:

 

[outerlimits]

You slurp Lorenzo and Parker, while sneering at fellow pilots. Who pissed in your Weaties? :lol:

Sneering ?

Look at what the easties have done to AWA pilots. Actually to there own group also.

Like I said don't shoot the messenger. I think Parker will be doing some skinning of the easties . JMO

 

[vetrider]

Sneering ?

Look at what the easties have done to AWA pilots. Actually to there own group also.

Like I said don't shoot the messenger. I think Parker will be doing some skinning of the easties . JMO

He'll probably give the easties a lollipop and take it out on us. Past practice is the best indicator of...

 

[GogglesPisano]

Only if Delta liquidates and YOU submit a resume at the new AA. You Delta boyz think that pedestal is soo solid. Get back to me in 10 years and we'll share notes...what an a...............

Outerlimits is not a Delta Pilot. He works for one of our myriad subcontractors.

 

[Turtle21]

Outerlimits is not a Delta Pilot. He works for one of our myriad subcontractors.

Perhaps that explains why his opinion was too lowly and he felt the need to appoint himself as "the messenger".

 

[Capt.Underpants]

Integration

US Air East A320 capt makes $124, DAL A320 FO pay + 3% is about $121.

I don't think that bodes well for the east in any future SLI. Thats one hell of an oops for putting all your chips on DOH. I'd say there will be a lot more career FO's if this happens than there ever would have been with the Nic. But what do I know. I'm sure this was part of usapa's plan all along.

 

[On Your Six]

US Air East A320 capt makes $124, DAL A320 FO pay + 3% is about $121.

I don't think that bodes well for the east in any future SLI. Thats one hell of an oops for putting all your chips on DOH. I'd say there will be a lot more career FO's if this happens than there ever would have been with the Nic. But what do I know. I'm sure this was part of usapa's plan all along.

I would guess the NIC award will be used again and then the group will vote on a union, and the APA will of course win. Then, an SLI will be done with the 7 year fences. The Easties will try to bully the APA guys, and that won't last long at all. Goodnight USAPA!


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[Lampshade]

Those swirl marks will look beautiful to a lot of pilots when APA pulls the handle on USAPA. I can hear the chants now "Flush! Flush! Flush!..."

 

[outerlimits]

I would guess the NIC award will be used again and then the group will vote on a union, and the APA will of course win. Then, an SLI will be done with the 7 year fences. The Easties will try to bully the APA guys, and that won't last long at all. Goodnight USAPA!


Godspeed!


The OYSter

To much drama to do it that way.


Much easier to recall all the furloughed AA pilots. Then Down size the easties until they cry uncle.

 

[St. Nic]

The stupidty of people is amazing some times.

 

[ackattacker]

US Air East A320 capt makes $124, DAL A320 FO pay + 3% is about $121.

I don't think that bodes well for the east in any future SLI. Thats one hell of an oops for putting all your chips on DOH. I'd say there will be a lot more career FO's if this happens than there ever would have been with the Nic. But what do I know. I'm sure this was part of usapa's plan all along.

I really don't see how you see that.

USAPA's plan all along was to delay implementation of the nic. Also fight for DOH but I think they always knew it was chancey. The prime purpose was always delay. And it worked, now a bunch of guys are retiring and they're retiring from the left seat not the right as they would have been had the nic been implemented 5 years ago. The price paid was keeping the bankruptcy contract, but even if the SLI had gone through it is doubtful that any negotiated contract improvements would have outweighed the damage the nic would have done to those pilots. Hence the delay.

If DP offers DAL +3% to AA pilots, he'll have to offer the same to the USAir pilots in order to get a joint contract. However the SLI integration works out between the two is very nearly irrelevant. DOH or relative seniority between AA and USAir the list looks almost identical and doesn't hurt either's career expectations. Especially with a 7 year fence but even without.

The real question becomes how does the east and west merge their lists in order to get it done. I have a feeling the courts are about to make that clear. Personally, I think it'll be the nic. As I said before though, the damage the nic would have done to east pilots in 2005 has already been significantly blunted by 2012 and would be blunted a lot more by merging with AA. Given sufficient pay and contract improvements, I'm confident both easties, westies, and AA pilots would vote for a contract that included the nic.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

CNN has a breaking new banner that says USAirways has reached an agreement with 3 AA unions for support of a merger. Not sure why this is breaking news it was already pretty much reported yesterday just not officially.