Rumor or Not? ASA 65 ERJ's

[JustaNumber]

I miss the days when aviation was a secure job and all employees were treated with respect!!!

What industry are you talking about? Or do you get your aviation history from Leonardo DiCapprio?

The piloting profession has been a rollercoaster of insecurity since the beginning. You'd better do a little more research before leaving that CFI job!

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

<<I miss the days when aviation was a secure job and all employees were treated with respect!!! >>

Me too. Oh, to have been an Eastern pilot in the 80's!

 

[scotts]

sorry in two weeks. Oh what exactly makes a pilot group a whore? Is it the pilot group or management? So if and a "BIG" if ASA gets this flying are we going to be seen as another Mesa? Just wondering. I just fly to where they tell me to as does everyone else who flies for an airline.

You would be a "whore" only if you vote in concessions on your next contract and lower the bar. Every airline management team will use the carrot of growth to get a concessionary contract approved. If the pilot group ratifies a concessionary contract to enable growth then you just became the latest industry "whores" and you will be contributing to the race to the bottom.

The club you hold over management's head is your vote. Exercise it wisely.

It's time to stand-up for what we are: professional airline pilots.

 

[PurdueBoiler]

I heard that Trans States or Mesa was going to get the flying ...I bet they could undercut just about anyone in price

 

[superrav]

no more CRJs are being made. I don't know how many Indy had left. CAL will have the ERJs being flown by express. As I understand it, express has the option to put them to use somewhere else or turn them over to CAL. I don't know if that is correct or not but, I do know there isn't anywhere outside of CALs system that can use 69 ERJs. So, I don't see how express is going to be able to use them. So, SkyW will staff the planes for CAL because express has refused to.

I believe they will find use for them..or already have.

 

[AV8700]

friend of mine in the ASA class said BL talked to them this morning and said we (ASA) put in a bid but won't know anything in a few months? I think he said months. Also......16 705's coming and ASA thinks we are getting them but so does skywest. So take it for what it's worth.

Skywest, Inc. put the bid in for the Cal flying. If they get it they'll decide who, ASA or Skywest, gets it.

 

[AdamKooper]

Skywest, Inc. put the bid in for the Cal flying. If they get it they'll decide who, ASA or Skywest, gets it.

Jerry already said twice if Skywest inc gets the CAL flying its ASAs

 

[AV8700]

Jerry already said twice if Skywest inc gets the CAL flying its ASAs

I know, I was there too. Just making the point that ASA and Skywest did not submit independent bids. He also said he was't interested in playing the two companies against each other. Why then only one bid?

 

[AdamKooper]

I know, I was there too. Just making the point that ASA and Skywest did not submit independent bids. He also said he was't interested in playing the two companies against each other. Why then only one bid?

ASA is cheaper for the 50 seater but more expensive for the 70.

I wouldn't be shocked if Skywest took all our 70's if we got the 65 erjs.

 

[007]

LOL,

you guys are already arguing about who gets what with the 69 ERJ's and the bid hasn't even been awarded yet. Jerry really doesn't have to be the smartest CEO with employees like you. Never mind you're putting 500+ xjt guys on the street.

Nice going...........




PS I know it's not all of you.

 

[TGT]

Remember, Xjet has the first say of what happens to these A/C. If, we don't excercise the option on the A/C then you guys MIGHT get the contract.

 

[sweptback]

you guys are already arguing about who gets what with the 69 ERJ's and the bid hasn't even been awarded yet. Jerry really doesn't have to be the smartest CEO with employees like you. Never mind you're putting 500+ xjt guys on the street.

I agree. If this does happen and CoEx loses a chunk of their flying, it just proves the point that management wants to push that all of us are easily replaceable (not to mention the 700 potential furloughs). While it may be a good thing for certain pilot groups in the short term, it's a horrible deal for us in the long term.

We really need to get over this "OMG I must upgrade in 2 years or less" and make decisions that will move the profession forward in the future.

But that's just my two cents.

 

[Superpilot92]

LOL,

you guys are already arguing about who gets what with the 69 ERJ's and the bid hasn't even been awarded yet. Jerry really doesn't have to be the smartest CEO with employees like you. Never mind you're putting 500+ xjt guys on the street.

Nice going...........



PS I know it's not all of you.

Its sad isnt it. Some of these guys are already rubbing there hands together and getting hardons about possible undercutting of xjet so they can upgrade faster and how their schedules will be in IAH. Freaking amazing, I know its not everyone but for those who hope for it at the expense of other pilots jobs, your pathetic.

I hope yall arent to dissapointed if XJET comes out of this smelling like roses.

 

[ArcticFlier]

He also said he was't interested in playing the two companies against each other.

And if you believe that...................I've got some beach front property to sell you in Colorado.

Why then only one bid?

Do I really need to answer that?




AF

 

["GO AROUND"]

LOL,

you guys are already arguing about who gets what with the 69 ERJ's and the bid hasn't even been awarded yet. Jerry really doesn't have to be the smartest CEO with employees like you. Never mind you're putting 500+ xjt guys on the street.

Nice going...........




PS I know it's not all of you.

Hey Dumba$$!

We, as in the pilots of ASA are not going to put any Coex pilots on the street! CAL is the one putting the flying up for bid and the COMPANY that we fly for bid for it. Yes, we as the pilots would fly it if our COMPANY is given the flying/aircraft our pilots would fly it. But CAL and Expressjet managment would be responsible for any furloughs.

Danm! It's like trying to explain this to children. As a pilot I have no say whatsoever who or what I fly for.

You may have more tact than some on here, but don't kid yourself. If it was ExpressJet that was bidding for other flying, ExpressJet pilots would be happy at the prospect of growth, upgrade, better schedule. As there are those here also at ASA.

As the saying goes, "lifes a b*tch and then you die".

 

[AV8700]

And if you believe that...................I've got some beach front property to sell you in Colorado.

Do I really need to answer that?




AF

Sarcasm. Ya know, like Skip said he wanted to wrap the contract up quick, no funny games.

 

[punkpilot48]

It does not matter who gets xjets flying. If they lose those routes and some other company starts flying them. There will be a small little private war between xjet pilots and the unfortunate pilot group that picks up the flying.

I know many xjets pilots I would hope they are better than that. But like someone else said. There is a whole lot of you guys. Angry mobs never lead to good things.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

Jerry already said twice if Skywest inc gets the CAL flying its ASAs

Oh, then it must be true.

 

[ARR-Jay]

I cannot believe people think this CAL bid is the road to utopia. Do you think Expressjet put in their low bid too? How much lower is company "X" willing to go and at what cost to the workers involved? Welcome to "Walmart". Good luck Expressjet is willing to make money some where else if it has to.

J

 

[scotts]

Hey Dumba$$!

We, as in the pilots of ASA are not going to put any Coex pilots on the street! ...

As a pilot I have no say whatsoever who or what I fly for.

Only partially true. If you are awarded the flying and it's not contingent on a concessionary contract, then good for you.

If you are awarded the flying after voting for concessions, then it was your pilot group who put XJT pilots on the street and yes, you did have a say in it..

Think before you vote. Who will be the next pilot group to join the race to the bottom? Don't give management the satisfaction.

 

[FL990]

Only partially true. If you are awarded the flying and it's not contingent on a concessionary contract, then good for you.

If you are awarded the flying after voting for concessions, then it was your pilot group who put XJT pilots on the street and yes, you did have a say in it..

Think before you vote. Who will be the next pilot group to join the race to the bottom? Don't give management the satisfaction.

The concessions that they want are on the 70 and have nothing to do with the 50's that are being bid on for CAL. We will not take concessions on the 50. The opener is what we have now so there will be movement on the 50 in terms of what we will get.

Lets not have a double standard here people. The union stands up and pounds there chest saying how it is not pilots, but mgmt who decides where, what, and how many airplanes we fly. Yet, on this board, we are blaming other pilot groups when flying shifts from one carrier to another. Which is it? if it is mgmt that makes the decisions, don't blame the pilots when they get more flying. If it is the pilots fault, then lets stop the chest pounding.

Here is my point...We blame the whipsaw on mgmt. REDICULOUS. It is our fault. The are in business and have found a genius way to bust the unions. All the while, ALPA sits back and pretends that it isn't working because they are afraid to admit there own weakness. THIS IS CRAP!! We need to recognize that they have got us and FIX THE PROBLEM. The only ones that can stop the whipsaw are the pilots. First, we admit that it exists, then we put all our efforts toward fixing it.

Now, to clarify, I am talking about intercompany whipsaw. In other words, ASA vs SKYWEST AIR. In terms of competition between Skywest INC and say...XJET or Comair, that will never end. Its called capitalism. What makes this unfortunate is the seniority system and the low pay as an FO. The system wasn't designed to sit as an FO for 5 years and once this growth spert is over, it is going to get really stagnant. Think about it...how long will a person sit as an FO when they are at the bottom of a 2500+ seniority list when new aircraft ARE NOT coming in.....FOREVER.

 

[scotts]

The concessions that they want are on the 70 and have nothing to do with the 50's that are being bid on for CAL. ...

Lets not have a double standard here people. The union stands up and pounds there chest saying how it is not pilots, but mgmt who decides where, what, and how many airplanes we fly. Yet, on this board, we are blaming other pilot groups when flying shifts from one carrier to another. Which is it? if it is mgmt that makes the decisions, don't blame the pilots when they get more flying. If it is the pilots fault, then lets stop the chest pounding.

Here is my point...We blame the whipsaw on mgmt. REDICULOUS. It is our fault. The are in business and have found a genius way to bust the unions. All the while, ALPA sits back and pretends that it isn't working because they are afraid to admit there own weakness. THIS IS CRAP!! We need to recognize that they have got us and FIX THE PROBLEM. The only ones that can stop the whipsaw are the pilots. First, we admit that it exists, then we put all our efforts toward fixing it.

Now, to clarify, I am talking about intercompany whipsaw. In other words, ASA vs SKYWEST AIR. In terms of competition between Skywest INC and say...XJET or Comair, that will never end. Its called capitalism. What makes this unfortunate is the seniority system and the low pay as an FO. The system wasn't designed to sit as an FO for 5 years and once this growth spert is over, it is going to get really stagnant. Think about it...how long will a person sit as an FO when they are at the bottom of a 2500+ seniority list when new aircraft ARE NOT coming in.....FOREVER.

See above post. I don't have time to respond...

FL990 - re-read your post. You contradict yourself.

If you vote in concessions on ANY of your airplanes, you are improving the bottom line for your company, hence making it possible to underbid another company. If you don't like the pay rates for the FO's, don't compromise on them on your next contract. Remember who votes on your contract.

Some of your statements smell of.......MANAGEMENT.

 

[FL990]

See above post. I don't have time to respond...

FL990 - re-read your post. You contradict yourself.

If you vote in concessions on ANY of your airplanes, you are improving the bottom line for your company, hence making it possible to underbid another company. If you don't like the pay rates for the FO's, don't compromise on them on your next contract. Remember who votes on your contract.

Some of your statements smell of.......MANAGEMENT.

Why do people cry MANAGEMENT any time someone uses reason and business logic instead of emotion. Are we suggesting that mgmt are the only ones who think logically and without pure emotion? Come on!! Pilots need to think with less emotion and more business sense. I am not advocating mgmt, I am saying that if we want to get paid what we are worth, we must counter there strategy of whipsaw, and in order to do that, we (at ASA and SKYWEST) must stick together. Trust me, this is not a mgmt point of view.

First, I did not say that i advocated a cut on the 70. I do not advocate concessions on any level, and no, I don't contradict myself. The company bids on flying are independent for each type of aircraft. The 70 pay rates don't effect 50 growth. That is what i was saying. The bidding system is not as complicated as you might think.

 

[007]

Hey Dumba$$!

We, as in the pilots of ASA are not going to put any Coex pilots on the street! CAL is the one putting the flying up for bid and the COMPANY that we fly for bid for it. Yes, we as the pilots would fly it if our COMPANY is given the flying/aircraft our pilots would fly it. But CAL and Expressjet managment would be responsible for any furloughs.

Danm! It's like trying to explain this to children. As a pilot I have no say whatsoever who or what I fly for.

You may have more tact than some on here, but don't kid yourself. If it was ExpressJet that was bidding for other flying, ExpressJet pilots would be happy at the prospect of growth, upgrade, better schedule. As there are those here also at ASA.

As the saying goes, "lifes a b*tch and then you die".

You say I have more tact than some others.......WHY are you calling me a DUMBA** then.

As too Xjt growth, I think we were perfectly fine in our little niche, there was no reason to change the status quo. CAl decided to change it and here we are. Now we might start flying your 70 seaters for if you don't take that paycut, but if you do you might get the 50's. It's a viscious cycle. All I was saying is for you guys to rein some of the ASA idiots(not everybody) in the van, who smile at me and tell how much they're gonna like flying them ERJ's around................true story.

 

[hbrow15]

My fellow XJTER'S work with me on this, I rarely post on any of these boards and usually never on anythread about our company unless someone is looking for some info..hiring mins..etc. As someone said Regional Pilots pilots are at the mercy of thier mainline carriers and more directly the decisions of our management, so it's time for the Jim's to earn thier money. Everytime I see one of these Expressjet threads I cringe hopeing none of us will respond to some of the obvious flamebait and rumor that no one can backup other than "my sim instructor's baby momma said". How many times do we slam one of our own for starting something on our board for something they heard out of the training department then completely dismiss it, but we come to flightinfo and let someone from other pilot groups get your blood pressure up over the samething if not worse becuase some of the stuff from them is completely wrong. Hell just look at this thread and how much is misunderstood about who has control over the 69 airplanes. There may be some that are gitty that they MAY get some work from CAL and could care less if we put people on the streets, I dont think at least I hope it's not the majority. If it is why would you let people of that character get you riled up. Everyone I have flown with have all been great guys and I hate to see nonsense bring out the worse in good guys. Mcpickle I'm a commuter so I love you like a play cousin, when someone pisses you off just think ATR....ATR...ATR.. . Besides we have things going on that I know all of you know about, and as you always say on our board McPickle" STFU, because if what those that claim to know is true why would you risk the company's position by putting on a public forum". Steelers won the Superbowl, Gators are in the Final 4 this is shaping up to be a good year for me, I just need Jim and Jim to round it out for me.

Holla atcha boy

 

["GO AROUND"]

You say I have more tact than some others.......WHY are you calling me a DUMBA** then.

As too Xjt growth, I think we were perfectly fine in our little niche, there was no reason to change the status quo. CAl decided to change it and here we are. Now we might start flying your 70 seaters for if you don't take that paycut, but if you do you might get the 50's. It's a viscious cycle. All I was saying is for you guys to rein some of the ASA idiots(not everybody) in the van, who smile at me and tell how much they're gonna like flying them ERJ's around................true story.

If that is true then pm me their names and I will have a chat with them about professionalism. I was just annoyed by all the Coex pilots blaming ASA pilots for something we have no control over and I took it out on you. Sorry.

Now if ASA pilots are being "DUMBA$$'s" about the prospect of getting the CAL flying that Coex does then that is wrong and I apologize on behalf of the rest of us. There is no call for that in these times.

But to hold us responsible for furloughs at Coex if we get the bid just pisses me off. It will be just as unfortunate as all the current and future 70 seat flying we do for DAL gets shifted to someone else when we tell our managment to shove their pay cut.

 

[Tomct]

Go Around...you got that right! We will tell mgmnt to SHOVE their paycuts right up their arsses! What most of our guys better understand is that IF our group was DUMB enough to take 70 seat concessions, they would DUMP our 50's as fast as they could and we would be in the same situation as Skywst. Same pay rate!! Screw THAT NOISE!!
I am with you also on the fact that if we have some dumbass3s out there throwing it in the XJet guys faces, they need to be beaten! That is truely uncalled for and I will NOT fly any XJet flying!

73pilot...why are you on this board? I hope the best for you guys, but I don't understand WHY you are so pissed at the ASA pilot group. When you owned us, we put a tremendous amount of cash into your everincreasing bottom RED line. You guys are mad because we are flying 50 and 70 seat jets on flying that was "Beneath Ya'll." Again I have no ax to grind here, but why sling the mud?

 

[BoilerUP]

I think its somewhat ironic that people are saying ASA would only be putting XJT pilots out of a job if they voted concessions to get flying, while CMR pilots have repeatedly claimed on this board that CHQ/RAH is directly responsible for them losing jobs when all CHQ did was sign a contract in October of 2003 that vastly improved on their previous CBA. Food for thought...

I don't think XJT is going to lose their flying, and until something is announced all of this is mere speculation and conjecture, with people getting their panties in a wad for no good reason.

 

[TNPILOT]

Here's a link to the whole article...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12086718/

Here's the portion that is relevant to this thread....

"Continental Airlines could announce a replacement for the operator it plans to withdraw from ExpressJet as soon as next week, according to people close to the discussions.
The Houston-based carrier said in January that it would withdraw 69 of the 274 Embraer aircraft which it subleases to ExpressJet after the two failed to agree on new contract terms.
Continental and other major carriers have enjoyed a relatively harmonious relationship with the regional carriers in recent years, but the pressure to cut costs has created strains.
The large carriers typically control the aircraft and cover fuel costs, but subcontract the flying to take advantage of the lower labour costs available at the regionals, who have remained profitable through the industry downturn.
Mesa Airlines, one of the largest regional carriers, is viewed as the frontrunner to take on the additional Continental business, according to people close to the talks. Mesa, which recently expanded its flying for Delta Air Lines, declined to comment though confirmed it had bid for the Continental and Northwest contracts."

 

[Standby 1]

The Houston-based carrier said in January that it would withdraw 69 of the 274 Embraer aircraft which it subleases to ExpressJet after the two failed to agree on new contract terms.

Once again, the media gets it wrong (there's a huge suprise). CAL can only withdraw the flying, not the aircraft. Any other carrier that is awarded the flying, if that does occur, must supply their own a/c if xjt decides to keep the leases on the 69 planes. Exactly how many times does this fact need to be restated for people to GET it? It's getting real old and repetitive. Gotta love the media....fact checking seems to be a routine of the past.



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