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RPM/Tach vs. Hobbs

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SDF2BUF2MCO

Bird Nerd
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
7,673
Does anyone know the "timing" of the tach for a C-172? For example, running at 2500 rpms for one hour, would that equate to one hour on the tach time or would it be more?
Scanned the POH and all I could find are airspeeds at certain power settings. At 4,000 feet 2500 rpms would produce an airspeed of 115 KTAS, while 2100 rpms would produce 93 KTAS. The flying club I belong to charges by tach time so to humor myself (plus in honor of pilot tradition I'm being cheap!) I'm trying to figure out if it is cheaper to get there faster knowing the tach meter is running faster or to throttle back some but know the tach will be operating longer. My gut feel is to get there faster because decreasing to 2100 rpms is a 16% power reduction but it equates to a 19% speed reduction. Being from Kentucky this is real rocket science for me. Thanks.
 
The misery for owners of airplanes who leaseback or rent their investments to pilots is that most pilots figure out that they are paying for the "package" (plane, fuel, oil, maint & insurance). Ergo, most bang for the pilot buck is to fly it flat out. It's not your fuel and it's not your engine that is getting burned up. You are paying xx dollars per hour (doesn't matter if hobbs or tach) - would you rather go 100 miles in that hour or 115 miles in that hour?

If you care about your trusty steed, you will run her gentle - 60-65% with proper leaning and good climb/descent management.

The final dilemna for the low-time pilot is "Time in the Book". Do you get from point A to point B in 0.9 hours or do you take care of the airplane, save fuel and put 1.1 hrs in your logbook?

If I had total control, I would always rent airplanes "dry" so that the renter would think about saving money as much as I do.

Finally, in the old Cherokee 180 (O-360 engine), the ratio used to be 2550 tach was flat out (about 75-77% at low altitude) and would yield one tach hour equal to one Hobbs hour. Running leaner/slower would yield something different. The CFI's all used to put 1.2 hobbs/watch hours to one tach hour in our instruction but the neighborhood DE always calculated 1.3 hobbs/watch hours to one tach hour - figuring that all that time in the pattern was definitely not being counted on the tachometer.

So there you go. Want the most fun for your tach hour? - stay in the pattern, spending half the time going up and half the time coming down on an idling engine. Want most utility out of your hour on an X-C? Run it hard - but don't tell the other club members that you were running the heck out of their engine. Want the longest life for your airplane engine? Run her gentle.
 
What I can tell you is what we do in our club. I am the maintenance Office and keep the records of flights hours in both Tach and Hopps. We charge our members from the Tach. Due to this is where you determine engine oil changes, Overhauls etc. In our case it's almost always 1-hour tach to 1.2 on the hopps.

I have also tested it out in flight. We have a o-320 Lycomings and at 2700 RPM it will go about 1.1 on the tach for the hour. at 75% 2475 RPM it will do the actual 1 hour on the tach for the hour. At 2300 RPM it will do .9 to the 1 hour of actual flight. This I feel is due to ware and tear of the engine. I have looked up the maintenance manual on the engine and it does not say anything about the settings. So I guess it's a pretty hidden thing. But since you started asking I am now very interested in finding the actual settings they use.

In the clubs we pay a wet rate. This keeps the airplane fueled and with fewer problems over members complaining that someone did not fill the tanks!
 
Most flight schools maintain their aircraft by tach time (oil changes & 100 hr inspections etc.) & charge the customers by hobbs time--it's an economic thing.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone.

The rental rate is wet ($56 per hour) and is based upon tach time. I just started a few months ago and I'm finding the tach time is approximately 15% less than hobbs. So you pay for tach, log hobbs (all the planes have hobb meters). Most of my flights are over 50 NM to chase the $100 burger.

I was just trying to figure out what RPM setting equals one hour on the tach and then try to figure out is it cheaper to go full throttle and get there faster or throttle back but spend more time with the tach turning but at a slower rate.

Tarp nailed it though, basically do the right thing by taking care of it. For the most part, like to think I do. Want all the fellow club members to be able to enjoy. As far as logging more or less hours it makes no difference. Kind of like a dog chasing a car, what am I going to do with them (the hours) anyway?!
 
abatista

You're pretty new to flying for a typical Maintenance Officer. If your club is full of newbies, you may want to create a document on care and feeding of aircraft. I used to run clubs, rent and leaseback so I've seen it all.

1.) 50 hr oil changes are a religion, not just a good idea. It's better to change the oil at 45hrs before a long X-C renter takes it away then to change the oil at 60hrs after the guy returns.

2.) Learn how to start airplanes! Nothing drives me more crazy than hearing starter motors burning themselves out by guys who haven't got a clue about fuel/air ratios. One rule of thumb is "Feed a Piper, starve a Cessna" meaning when the engine won't start, usually the error is that a pilot hasn't given enough fuel for the Piper carb and they've usually flooded the Cessna carb. For Piper carbs, start at 80F and go down to 20F - at 80, give one shot of prime, at 60F, two shots, at 40F, three shots and at 20F, give 4 shots - then pump the throttle once and once only. Start. For Cessnas, if you've pumped that primer twice, you've put a heck of a lot of fuel in the engine and you need to be working hard to introduce enough air to offset all that fuel.

3.) Lean on the ground and in the air. Fouling the plugs and valves doesn't help engine life one bit.

4.) After you've attained a safe altitude (personal preference on the definition of safe), lower the nose. Climbing airplanes at Vx or Vy on 75F or greater days is just cooking those cylinders. You can climb at 85, 90, 95 knots and get better cooling across the engine. You can also see better over the nose.

5.) Proper leaning on all engines and running at 60-65% power levels gives a whole lot more engine life than running at 75%. Use your performance charts. Lycoming O-320's and O-360's have a sweet spot in the 6,000-8,000ft range where you get best bang for the buck. If on long X-C's take advantage of these altitudes.

6.) Although the smaller Lycomings are not as succeptible to shock cooling as bigger blocks, if you have been on a long X-C and then suddenly chop and drop, you will find out all about cracks in the crankcase. On X-C's, plan a descent to a lower altitude that is a cruise descent keeping power till stable at a lower altitude.

7.) On landing, get that carb. heat switch closed and stop sucking in all that dust. If you've got cowl flaps, get them open and fast. Taxi at the pace you were taught by your instructor, not too fast, not too slow.

And finally - little goodies:

-a clean airplane is a happy airplane!
-treat plastic parts like egg shells - they break that easy!
-turn radio knobs and switches like they belong to an $8,000 stereo system - they are not bathroom door handles.
-the knob on the DG is actuated by pushing all the way to the bottom, turning in the desired direction and releasing. Don't start turning until the gears have unmeshed.
-the max allowable items on your ignition key ring is the equivalent of three keys. Hanging 20lbs of junk from a Bendix ignition switch is just going to break the tumblers inside.
-plastic windshields are made of plastic not glass - no ammonia, no squegees, no paper towels - unless those soft cottony ones - use lots of water and rub softly in a windstream direction not circles.
-props are made to be turned in the direction they turn - turning a prop backwards does not move oil - only turning forward does the oil pump actually squeeze oil into the lines. And treat every prop like it is "hot"(i.e. ready to start).

I don't rent anymore but do I remember my maintenance bills - starters, radios, batteries, wing tips, royalite parts, DG's and AI's and my mechanic constantly yelling at me "tell them to lean, tell them to lean". Keeping IFR equipped rental airplanes in flying shape is not fun!
 

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