ROTC, OTS, and which branch?

[AD SUPT Hopeful]

Ever since the T-1, you can kiss your fast-mover aspirations good bye forever if you don't track 38s.

With all due respect to your lack of experience, a program existed a short time ago which provided for T-1 trained bomber pilots. Yes, the program is over, but the point is that things change. So the advice to find happiness in what you end up doing long-term stands.

 

[Draginass]

With all due respect to your vast experience and what seems an outstanding and successful career, you can't scold this kid's valuation for wanting a fighter, because his chances of being able to replicate your own assignment history under the new tracking system is 0.000001%. You had the benefit of cross-flow, he will not. Ever since the T-1, you can kiss your fast-mover aspirations good bye forever if you don't track 38s. Some of us consider that reality to be unwarranted, when clearly there are examples, like yours, that prove that cross-flows worked. So, it's not the same yardstick being used.

Other than that, I agree with you about keeping perspective about the values that are important when considering a long pilot career in the AF.

No scold intended in any way. Just some advice on realism and perspective. As you and I pointed out, there are no guarantees on what aircraft you'll get out of UPT. There never was except for ANG/Res. Cross-flow, even during my tenure was rare, and as point of fact, I did not ask to go to fast movers . . I was drafted in the initial cadre of B-1s. The point is, if you're convinced that you'll be absolutely unhappy with anything other than an "F" airplane (other than the F-117 since it's really a light bomber), then you need to re-examine why your there. When I got a KC-135 out of UPT, I was disappointed since I wanted a combat mission, but then it turned out to be one of my best assignments being assigned to a squadron dedicated to refueling the SR-71. Great mission, great TDYs. Also, I don't consider anyone potentially entering the USAF officer corps a "kid." They're men and leaders, that's how I treated the my junior officers.

Best of luck in your future career. When I retired, I did so with complete ease of mind because I knew the quality of the junior officers in my unit. They didn't need me any longer. They were smart, dedicated, and great aviators and leaders.

 

[Gunfighter]

No scold intended in any way. Just some advice on realism and perspective. As you and I pointed out, there are no guarantees on what aircraft you'll get out of UPT. There never was except for ANG/Res.

Even in the ANG there are no guarantees, just a very strong likelyhood. In my class we had one guard guy who struggled in T-37s and went the T-1 track even though he was from a fighter unit. His unit leadership worked to find him a heavy slot in another unit rather than risk his entire career.

I also know of guard guys who would have gone the tanker/transport route if they were active duty based on T-37 rankings, but because they were from a figher unit, they went to the T-38 and ultimately washed out of the program.

The ANG/Res "guarantee" can be a double edged sword.

 

[malterf15]

Back to the original question:

Dude. If you want to fly military airplanes, join the Air Force any way you can.
Every other service's air mission is a tangent.
If you can get to ENJJPT (which has nothing to do with your flying ability) you have an 80-85% chance of getting a fighter (vs 20% at SUPT). And it's easier than SUPT.
Everyone's right that the guard is the best deal of all.

 

[hindsight2020]

With all due respect to your lack of experience, a program existed a short time ago which provided for T-1 trained bomber pilots. Yes, the program is over, but the point is that things change. So the advice to find happiness in what you end up doing long-term stands.

I wasn't being sarcastic when I said 'with all due respect', I was being sincere about acknowledging his background and experience before making my remark. As it pertains to the T-1 issue, I stand corrected (and yes I was aware bombers, particularly the -52, dropped from the T-1 in the not so distant past, for a short time). I'm not making any qualitative judgement on the skill of anybody, I'm just stating the unlikely nature of such a cross-flow given the current system.

As for my lack of experience, gimme the benefit of a year chief, we can share notes again when I get to the FTU if it makes you feel better.

... Cross-flow, even during my tenure was rare, and as point of fact, I did not ask to go to fast movers . . I was drafted in the initial cadre of B-1s.

Very interesting point. I must admit that throughout the discussion I did not obtain positive knowledge of exactly how many people actually got to cross-flow in the old system, which perhaps trivializes the issue of a T-1 hampering one's ability to cross-flow under the new tracking system.

The point is, if you're convinced that you'll be absolutely unhappy with anything other than an "F" airplane (other than the F-117 since it's really a light bomber), then you need to re-examine why your there. When I got a KC-135 out of UPT, I was disappointed since I wanted a combat mission, but then it turned out to be one of my best assignments being assigned to a squadron dedicated to refueling the SR-71. Great mission, great TDYs.

Once again, totally agree.

Also, I don't consider anyone potentially entering the USAF officer corps a "kid." They're men and leaders, that's how I treated the my junior officers.

I tend to use the term 'kid' more generally than average, so I apologize about not using a more proper term; I did not intend to misrepresent the tone of your original post as it pertained to the original poster. And you're correct, you did not address him in a lessening quality at any point in your reply.

Tailwinds

 

[AD SUPT Hopeful]

As for my lack of experience, gimme the benefit of a year chief, we can share notes again when I get to the FTU if it makes you feel better.

No problem, buddy.

 

[LeadSolo]

I don't think I can really come up with the money to pay for myself to go to embry riddle or another aviation school (I'm sticking with my major) out of pocket so unless I find a scholarship, it looks like ROTC and hopefully a scholarship is going to be the way I have to go.

As far as the Marine Corps, I would not have a problem at all. But I have a few friends who joined up and lost their jobs because they needed infantry. Does anyone know about the Marines flight program and the chances I would have of getting into a fighter?

Long time reader, first post, so take this for what it's worth...

I didn't have the money, either. Picked up a three year ROTC scholarship to pay for school. I went with the Marine Option (more on that later) and it is the best deal going.
You DO NOT need to go to Embry-Riddle or any other over-priced (IMHO) aviation school. There are plenty of fighter pilots on the Marine Corps side of the house with degrees in Music, Art, Communications (not that there is anything wrong with that). What I'm trying to get at, is that a 4-year degree in basket-weaving counts as much in flight school as engineering. It doesn't matter. As long as you perform in flight training, you'll get through. It may help to have an advanced degree, but I cannot attest to that!
A bunch of civilian time being an advantage coming into flight school is debatable. I started with nadda, zip, and wondered what the heck I got myself into on the first take-off roll in the mighty T-34. I made it by and earned my wings. The students with prior time did really well in primary training, don't get me wrong. Where I saw the difference was in jet training. A few of the "high-time" bubbas got so used to not having to study, or prepare as much for their flights, they took that attitude with jet training. Needless to say, they were attrited. I am not categorizing everyone with civilian time in that category, however.
As far as the Marine aviation contract goes, I have never heard of a contract being taken away because the Marine Corps needed more infantry bubbas. That is simply not true. I am in a position now that I work with every Marine coming into flight training on a daily basis, and I have never heard of that happening. Some guys have volunteered to drop their contract and go infantry, but that is it. The Marine Corps is the only service (last I knew) that will allow you to sign an aviation contract prior to commissioning. I was a freshman in college when I signed up. Quite a relief to know that if you graduate college you are going to get a shot at flight school. This removes the extremely competitive slots for aviation from your plate.
As far as a shot at fighters, the Marine Corps averages about 330 pilots produced a year. Of that roughly 200 to helos, 100 to jets, 15 to C-130s, and 15 to V-22s. If you finish #1 in your class you get your choice!
Fight's On!

 

[SIG600]

The Marine Corps is the only service (last I knew) that will allow you to sign an aviation contract prior to commissioning. I was a freshman in college when I signed up. Quite a relief to know that if you graduate college you are going to get a shot at flight school. This removes the extremely competitive slots for aviation from your plate.

The Navy does too. When you apply for an OCS slot, you're applying for your job. Pilot, NFO, SWO, whatever. Hence why I was advocating the BDCP program. Get your pilot slot two years in advance, and get paid the whole time you're finishing college.
The Marine PLC program seems like a good deal too. Split up OCS into two summers, go to TBS after commisioning, and you've had your air contract the entire time. I have known a few guys that had an air contract going to TBS, and I don't know if they drank too much of the Kool Aid or what but dropped their contract to be a combat eng., infantry, etc. I've talked to quite a few guys that said at TBS the air cont. guys get crap on... I guess because they don't have to compete or something.

 

[payola]

The Marine PLC program seems like a good deal too. Split up OCS into two summers

You can also do PLC-Combined and knock out OCS in one 10 week summer session. That second trip to OCS...yeah, not the greatest time ever.

 

[talondriver]

Very interesting point. I must admit that throughout the discussion I did not obtain positive knowledge of exactly how many people actually got to cross-flow in the old system, which perhaps trivializes the issue of a T-1 hampering one's ability to cross-flow under the new tracking system.

I don't think the AF thinks the way you do. It has EVERYTHING to do with your training background. Those who crossflowed were T-38 trained (squawk-ident if you're a T-1 trained pilot flying fighters). The AF is very good at stamping your destiny on your fore-cranium when you're a baby pilot. That's unfortunate...like the AF buying the T-1.

The best people to ask are the T-38 PIT dudes at Randolph since they do the jet qual for pilots going back to fast movers.

 

[SIG600]

You can also do PLC-Combined and knock out OCS in one 10 week summer session. That second trip to OCS...yeah, not the greatest time ever.

Ya... had a few college buddies that said the second summer a lot of dudes decided they didn't want to do round two.

 

[JimNtexas]

There is no cross-flow (unless your Dad or father-in-law is a General).

Frankly, it is a rare privilege to get offered a UPT slot, and an even greater privilege to be assigned as a pilot to any military airplane.

Just stop thinking about how many motors you want. It's at best childish, and and worst incredibly arrogant to even hint that you are too good for a tanker or transport pilot job.

 

[SIG600]

Just stop thinking about how many motors you want. It's at best childish, and and worst incredibly arrogant to even hint that you are too good for a tanker or transport pilot job.

One of my best friends is a KC-10 pilot... It should be criminal some of the benefits and scams they can pull. There's good and bad to every community, hollywood just hasn't glamorized the life of a tanker/transport pilot, so there are preconcieved notions and stereotypes everywhere.

 

[TankerDriver]

One of my best friends is a KC-10 pilot... It should be criminal some of the benefits and scams they can pull. There's good and bad to every community, hollywood just hasn't glamorized the life of a tanker/transport pilot, so there are preconcieved notions and stereotypes everywhere.

Yeah, there should be a sequel to Top Gun, called "Top Tanker". Picture it, the opening scene with an 80's guitar ballad in the backround, 2 fat tanker pilots and a boom operator with a cigarette in his mouth lugging 14 pubs bags and boxed lunches up into the cockpit. Ah yes, Top Tanker will be a blockbuster.

 

[LeadSolo]

There is one out there for P-3s doing that very same thing. They called it "Top Prop", and it was hilarious!