ROTC, OTS, and which branch?

[JimNtexas]

But what are the odds of a brand new 2Lt getting a full time slot? I would say slim. All I'm saying is where are you going to go with 500 hrs? Especially if you have a wife and a kid.

Of course, our Guard guy, with 500 hours of turbine time, two years of spare-no-expense training, no flying training debt, who is currently flying a high performance aircraft (very possiblity as PIC) part time (but accumulating the same or more hours per month as his active duty friends) for more money than most Regional FO's, is doomed to a lifetime of unemployment.

He's in Living Hell, no doubt about it.

No civilian operator would ever hire a military pilot.

Edited to add: Another hellish aspect of the pitiful life of our 500 hour Air Guard pilot is that he or she is flying along side pilots for all the major commerical airlines. Since airlines never ever ask for LORs from currently employed pilots there is no chance that our young Guard pilot might get his or her foot in the door at [insert airline name here] a little bit sooner since he is flying with their pilots several times a month and they know he or she can do the job.

Oh, and the poor Guard smuck probably can't wear a tie while he flies.

 

[Gunfighter]

If after being in the part-time Guard for a while he or she decides they like active duty, can this fairly junior Guard pilot transfer into the active force?

I know several F-16 pilots who successfully transferred from the ANG to Active Duty. I've also known of qualified fighter pilots being offered remote tours with the Army as an Air Liason Officer. It all depends on the needs of the Air Force at the time of application.

It's a great way to get a full-time paycheck and benefits, but you also enter the active duty assignment system and generally have no guarantees of follow on assignments. An active duty fighter pilot will typically have at least one remote assignment and at least one non-flying assignment during their career. A guard pilot can expect to remain on flying status throughout their career with no remote assignments.

 

[AdlerDriver]

But what are the odds of a brand new 2Lt getting a full time slot? I would say slim. All I'm saying is where are you going to go with 500 hrs? Especially if you have a wife and a kid.

It depends on what was agreed on when he was hired. We had a new Lt come straight from UPT into a full time slot because that's what he was hired to do. Full time jobs are not awarded based on rank (at least in my unit). We've got so many LtCols, that would never work. Best case, there's a mix of ranks throughout the full timer crowd.
Plus, a fighter "seasoning" period is usually several years. By the time the guy is running out of time, chances are a full time slot might have opened up. Depends on the unit and the equipment they fly, of course.

Edited: One other thing. A 500 hour fighter pilot is just starting to get to the point where he's not a liability to his flight. Good leadership will not force him to go part time unless there's no other choice. There's always 30 days of orders you can string together with a temp technician slot, etc. Only truly experienced fighter pilots can go part time effectively. They can make it on 6-8 sorties a month and get back in the groove after a couple of sorties. A new guy at 500 hours can not and really shoudn't be asked to. IMO

 

[Korgs130]

Boris,

I am an additional duty AF Admissions Liaison Officer and I interview applicants for AF ROTC and the Air Force Academy. Here is my 2 cents as far as the Air Force is concerned. If you want to be a pilot try to go to the Academy. This year they will graduate about 1000 cadets with about ½ being pilot qualified (physically). They have almost 540 pilot slots. So if you do the math, just about every graduate from the Academy who is pilot qualified gets to go to pilot training.

As the AF shrinks their officer ranks, they will cut back on ROTC commissions and send just enough people though OTC to keep that program running. These programs will only have a few pilot slots compared to the number of PQ candidates in each. Please don’t get me wrong, fine officers come out of all of these commissioning sources, but the odds of getting a pilot slot are greatly increased by going to the Academy.

The Guard is also another option. I joined the ANG after 9 ½ years of active duty and there are a lot of benefits. Here in Illinois if you join the Guard you get 100% tuition at a state school plus 100% of your flight fees if you are in an aviation program. That being said, we get, on average, 1, maybe 2 pilot slots a year. One of those usually goes to someone who is already in the unit (i.e. a nav, flight engineer or load master). We do interview civilians, but experience has show that we are better off going with a known quantity. A 4 year degree is a requirement to interview for a pilot slot at our unit.

Just remember, when you join the military the needs of the armed forces come first. That determines how many pilots are trained each year and what aircraft you get assigned to if you do get your wings. Please PM me if you have any more questions. Good Luck!

Korgs

 

[skycaptain11]

ROTC is NOT the way to go. Very competitive, Very worthless.
Get a comission after school.

 

[SIG600]

Just another side of what Korgs said, should you decide to do a full tour at an academy, rather than just finish your BS... going to an Academy dosen't promise you anything. You could owe a commitment, and not be in a cockpit (same with ROTC).

You should actually look into the Navy's BDCP program. Personally I think it's the best deal going. Apply for a pilot slot, get accepted with an OCS date around your grad time... get paid the whole time, no ROTC stuff, no uniform, etc. Just go to OCS after graduation with your pilot slot (while acruing time in servce = $$$$) and voila. There are 2 year Navy ROTC scholarships out there too. And we all know the best flying involves traps and cat shots imp:

 

[payola]

There seems to be a good bit of 'advice' coming from people who have no military experience. Interesting.

And ROTC worthless? ROTC? AFROTC? Or NROTC? I guess at least part of that depends on the quality of the active duty staff (and students) where you go to school. We were active in the students' lives and had a positive impact on (most of) them. Sure it may not teach you to be a pilot, but it will expose you to aspects of military life and you will meet people in your peer group who you will bump into for the rest of your career (however, no aviation guarantee, at least not with Navy option NROTC). I'd love to hear about the experiences that make you deem it 'worthless'.

BDCP is a very well kept secret. As was said above, you still do OCS, but all your time in the program counts towards retirement and such. And you can get guaranteed SNA or SNFO.

I doubt you're seriously thinking about the Marine Corps but if so, ask away...

 

[psysicx]

So can a fighter pilot in the guard make enough if he is only flying part time? If there such a thing as fighter bumming? According to Jim this is yes.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

From what I understand, even part-time Guard pilots make decent money. Also, at least for fighters, and this may apply to heavies as well, once finished with UPT, you return to your unit and are on full-time status for a specific amount of time for more 'on the job training', so to speak. I've heard fighter guys are usually full-time after UPT for about two years, before going to traditional Guardsman.

There are pros and cons to any of the two; Active Duty, or Guard. True Guard is, for the most part, part-time, but as mentioned, there are full-time slots. For some units these slots are few, and for others not so few. It really depends on the mission(s) of that particular unit, and their needs for full-time vs. part-time pilots. Each unit varies -- the unit I joined, from what I have been told, at any given time is 71% full-time. Keep in mind that the Guard has drill once a month, but in between those drills there have to be full-timers running the show, the Guard does not just shut down in between drills.

If your goal is to one day fly for an airline, or even fly for an airline, as well as the military, the Guard is a great choice. If you fly fighters for a Guard unit, that is PIC jet time, basically, from the get go. Flying heavies I understand takes a couple of years to become aircraft commander, where you can log PIC. Either way, heavies, or fighters, remember that most of the other pilots probably fly for an airline, more than likely, a major airline. As mentioned, with LOR being highly valued, it doesn't hurt to have been military trained, and have LOR from current pilots with [insert airline], as well as they being current military pilots, who have flown with you. HUGE plus right there.

Ultimately it depends on what you truly desire to do. You can always apply to both - Active Duty, and Guard, and see who offers you a chance first.

 

[Boris_159]

Thanks guys. A lot of this has been helpful. I maybe wasn't specific enough in my original post though. I really don't have much interest at all in the ANG. If I am going to fly, I wan't to go active duty and end up where the fight is if that is what I get assigned to.

If the academy would accept some credits and I wouldn't have to start all over, I would consider it, but I really don't want to start back at square one when I have 60 some credits and an associates degree already.

I don't think I can really come up with the money to pay for myself to go to embry riddle or another aviation school (I'm sticking with my major) out of pocket so unless I find a scholarship, it looks like ROTC and hopefully a scholarship is going to be the way I have to go.

As far as the Marine Corps, I would not have a problem at all. But I have a few friends who joined up and lost their jobs because they needed infantry. Does anyone know about the Marines flight program and the chances I would have of getting into a fighter?

Edit: PS> Does anyone know where I can find a list of ROTC programs that offer aviation (not engineering) as a major?