ROTC, OTS, and which branch?

[SIG600]

Just another side of what Korgs said, should you decide to do a full tour at an academy, rather than just finish your BS... going to an Academy dosen't promise you anything. You could owe a commitment, and not be in a cockpit (same with ROTC).

You should actually look into the Navy's BDCP program. Personally I think it's the best deal going. Apply for a pilot slot, get accepted with an OCS date around your grad time... get paid the whole time, no ROTC stuff, no uniform, etc. Just go to OCS after graduation with your pilot slot (while acruing time in servce = $$$$) and voila. There are 2 year Navy ROTC scholarships out there too. And we all know the best flying involves traps and cat shots imp:

 

[payola]

There seems to be a good bit of 'advice' coming from people who have no military experience. Interesting.

And ROTC worthless? ROTC? AFROTC? Or NROTC? I guess at least part of that depends on the quality of the active duty staff (and students) where you go to school. We were active in the students' lives and had a positive impact on (most of) them. Sure it may not teach you to be a pilot, but it will expose you to aspects of military life and you will meet people in your peer group who you will bump into for the rest of your career (however, no aviation guarantee, at least not with Navy option NROTC). I'd love to hear about the experiences that make you deem it 'worthless'.

BDCP is a very well kept secret. As was said above, you still do OCS, but all your time in the program counts towards retirement and such. And you can get guaranteed SNA or SNFO.

I doubt you're seriously thinking about the Marine Corps but if so, ask away...

 

[psysicx]

So can a fighter pilot in the guard make enough if he is only flying part time? If there such a thing as fighter bumming? According to Jim this is yes.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

From what I understand, even part-time Guard pilots make decent money. Also, at least for fighters, and this may apply to heavies as well, once finished with UPT, you return to your unit and are on full-time status for a specific amount of time for more 'on the job training', so to speak. I've heard fighter guys are usually full-time after UPT for about two years, before going to traditional Guardsman.

There are pros and cons to any of the two; Active Duty, or Guard. True Guard is, for the most part, part-time, but as mentioned, there are full-time slots. For some units these slots are few, and for others not so few. It really depends on the mission(s) of that particular unit, and their needs for full-time vs. part-time pilots. Each unit varies -- the unit I joined, from what I have been told, at any given time is 71% full-time. Keep in mind that the Guard has drill once a month, but in between those drills there have to be full-timers running the show, the Guard does not just shut down in between drills.

If your goal is to one day fly for an airline, or even fly for an airline, as well as the military, the Guard is a great choice. If you fly fighters for a Guard unit, that is PIC jet time, basically, from the get go. Flying heavies I understand takes a couple of years to become aircraft commander, where you can log PIC. Either way, heavies, or fighters, remember that most of the other pilots probably fly for an airline, more than likely, a major airline. As mentioned, with LOR being highly valued, it doesn't hurt to have been military trained, and have LOR from current pilots with [insert airline], as well as they being current military pilots, who have flown with you. HUGE plus right there.

Ultimately it depends on what you truly desire to do. You can always apply to both - Active Duty, and Guard, and see who offers you a chance first.

 

[Boris_159]

Thanks guys. A lot of this has been helpful. I maybe wasn't specific enough in my original post though. I really don't have much interest at all in the ANG. If I am going to fly, I wan't to go active duty and end up where the fight is if that is what I get assigned to.

If the academy would accept some credits and I wouldn't have to start all over, I would consider it, but I really don't want to start back at square one when I have 60 some credits and an associates degree already.

I don't think I can really come up with the money to pay for myself to go to embry riddle or another aviation school (I'm sticking with my major) out of pocket so unless I find a scholarship, it looks like ROTC and hopefully a scholarship is going to be the way I have to go.

As far as the Marine Corps, I would not have a problem at all. But I have a few friends who joined up and lost their jobs because they needed infantry. Does anyone know about the Marines flight program and the chances I would have of getting into a fighter?

Edit: PS> Does anyone know where I can find a list of ROTC programs that offer aviation (not engineering) as a major?

 

[payola]

As far as the Marine Corps, I would not have a problem at all. But I have a few friends who joined up and lost their jobs because they needed infantry. Does anyone know about the Marines flight program and the chances I would have of getting into a fighter?

I'm willing to bet there's more to the story than that. There are a few ways to lose your flight slot, if you don't hold up your end of the contract (poor choice of words on my part earlier calling it a guarantee) the Marine Corps won't hold up theirs. You fail the flight physical, or fail any portion of flight training you can have your slot yanked. Of course there are other ways-most of them rooted in being a poor officer. Or you can just decide you don't want to do it anymore. As foreign as the concept might seem, there are a ton of people who join the Marine Corps with SNA/SNFO contracts, then at TBS decide they want a ground job. Besides, the Marine Corps doesn't need infantry in the context you used it in. There are more officers at TBS who want to be infantry officers than there are slots at IOC (at least in the last few years). Every TBS class people get their hearts broken because they did not get infantry.

As far as getting fighters, all we have is the F/A-18. We have Cs, Ds, and I believe there are still some A models floating around out there. Navy has supers (Es and Fs) but we don't. The majority of our fleet is helos. So if your heart burns to fly fighters, mathematically we ain't the best choice.

Edit: That doesn't mean that you won't have a ground job. You could also end up as a FAC-forward air controller. They go out with the infantry and call in air strikes. But that's a B-billet for pilots/NFOs and typically lasts 12-18 months. Anyway, we do flight contracts for our NROTC, PLC, and OCC commissioning sources. Ask 'em if you got 'em.

 

[skycaptain11]

my bad, see below, sorry for the two post

 

[skycaptain11]

I guess I really didn't mean worthless "worthless". A good experience if you are willing to take the chance of not getting a pilot slot. Kids that are finished field training are not even getting their commision into the USAF upon graduation! 2-4 years of hard work for nothing. As far as pilot slots go it is the most competitive, most every kid I was in AFROTC with wanted to fly. The officers where very helpful but they can only get you so far. You must score high on the AFOQT, the BAT, and be in the top of your class even to be considered for selection by the pilot board. Once they couldn't guarentee me anything after I scored high on the AFOQT, I got out. If you know a General Good luck to you, that should have some pull. Good luck

N

 

[payola]

most every kid I was in AFROTC with wanted to fly...You must score high on the AFOQT, the BAT, and be in the top of your class even to be considered for selection by the pilot board.

Some of our AFROTC seniors explained it to me like this:
Everybody shows up freshman year wanting to be a pilot. Then they figure out how competitive it is (like you said). So by junior or senior year, whenever they do their service selection or whatever it's called, there are only a few diehards who still want to be and are competitive enough to be selected for pilot.
Our Air Force unit across the hall always touted some really high percentage, in the nineties I believe, of people who ask for pilot who get it. What they failed to ever mention was the really high percentage of people who somewhere along the way decide to 'settle' for something different.

Navy option NROTC doesn't guarantee aviation either. Someone else will have to speak for the Army. Marines definitely do aviation contracts. Of course, not everybody's in tune with the things we do, so, it's a choice each person has to make...

 

[skycaptain11]

Our Air Force unit across the hall always touted some really high percentage, in the nineties I believe

90 sounds a high but it could be true for certain schools. Like you said people do change their minds about being a pilot in the military. All I am saying is the Air Force ROTC does not guarentee anything when it comes to the person who is a diehard about becoming an aviator.

However, your are correct, there are guarenteed flight slots upon sucessful completion of OCS for every branch of the military. Its hit or miss with every branch, they just have a quota to meet like every other business. I'm not bashing ROTC, it was a good experience, just wish that had a guarentee.

 

[Draginass]

Boris - You need to approach this thing in the right frame of mind. The primary motivator should be to serve your country and not for some selfish reason that your country should let you fly a fighter aircraft, "or the deals off." Wanting to fly fighters is great. Having career desires and goals is great, but don't let it overshadow the prime objective. Be sure you're willing to cope with demands of military life. It's not Tom Cruise and Hollywood BS. It's deadly serious business. I spend 22 years in the USAF and can't count on two hands the number of friends/aquaintances that have been killed just in aircraft accidents, many leaving behind wives, children, and fiancees (probably even worse in the Navy due to the inherently more dangerous training and operational environment). Make sure you can deal with the long and frequent deployments (especially Navy). Also, there's no guarantee that you'll get an F-22, F-15, or F-16. You could get a bomber, or transport/tanker, depending on the needs of the USAF, and your UPT class ranking. Just because you have a pilot's license now, doesn't mean you'll necessarily do well in formation and go fighter track.

Your desire to "go where the fight is" is admirable and shows great spirit. However, the "fight" these days is in a lot of places that F-15s don't go.

Being a little short on cash and with some college credit behind you, I would think a 2 yr ROTC scholarship would be the way to go. I was on a 4 yr scholarship (albeit 30 years ago) that paid all tuition and books, plus a living stipend every month. I think it's still similar now. Although I wanted an A-10 coming out of UPT, but instead got a KC-135 (great assignment) and later went to the initial cadre of B-1s when then came into the inventory. Had a great career. So, don't get zero'd in on fighters to the point that it's the be-all, end-all. Lots of really great missions and airplanes in the services.

Here's a link to a list of aviation colleges, but not necessarily with ROTC detachments. You'd have to check individual schools.

www.aapilots.com/public/flash/mentoring.asp?content_id=1280

Best of luck. There's nothing like the feeling of having your girl pin your Air Force or Naval Aviator wings on you.

 

[SIG600]

So can a fighter pilot in the guard make enough if he is only flying part time? If there such a thing as fighter bumming? According to Jim this is yes.

Are you able to NOT thread jack someone else's thread? 1/3 of the posts on here are answering your questions, that are irrelivant to what Boris is asking.

I don't think I can really come up with the money to pay for myself to go to embry riddle or another aviation school (I'm sticking with my major) out of pocket so unless I find a scholarship, it looks like ROTC and hopefully a scholarship is going to be the way I have to go.

Don't sweat it man. While I enjoyed my time at Humpty Diddles School of Poverty... there's a lot to be said for graduating without any student loan debt. It's a good education, but for the route you wanna go, it won't get you there any faster than a good state school with an ROTC scholarship. Seriously consider the Navy's BDCP program. With your credits you're eligible, and sound competitive. You'll get paid while you're in school, and when you get commisioned your time in service counts. You'll be commissioned an O-1 w/ 2 or 3 years service and a full account of leave = $$$$$$!!!! Your desire to fly fighters isn't arrogant... you just gotta be ready to enjoy something else if the week you select the needs of the service put you in something else. And you never know, you may find out later in the training pipeline that something else sounds better. I know a lot of guys that wanted jets, and after some exposure to guys (instructors) from other communites, wound up putting something else first choice. And despite what everyone says about percentages in different services for jet selection chances... I'm convinced there is no gaming the system. Decide if you want to fly for the Air Force or the Navy/Marine Corps. Both have their pluses and minuses (we do cooler stuff though! ) And then shoot for a jet slot from there.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

Edit: PS> Does anyone know where I can find a list of ROTC programs that offer aviation (not engineering) as a major?

The ROTC program itself is not a degree, nor does the program itself offer/ require specific degrees. You need to find a college that has an ROTC program. You can major in ANY degree that college has to offer. ROTC does not require you to major in any specific degree at all. ROTC simply requires you to take some specific classes, most of which count as an elective toward whatever your degree is - such as aviation.

Also, some colleges have, I believe it is called, cross-training, or something like that. Meaning, the college you are attending may not have ROTC, but another nearby college may have it. You can participate in the ROTC program with the other college, while still attending your current one and majoring in aviation.

My advice would be to contact your current college and inquire about ROTC, and any programs nearby you could participate in, if your currrent college does not have the program.

 

[psysicx]

I didn't hijack this thread. Its good to understand all of your options.

 

[hindsight2020]

Being a little short on cash and with some college credit behind you, I would think a 2 yr ROTC scholarship would be the way to go. I was on a 4 yr scholarship (albeit 30 years ago) that paid all tuition and books, plus a living stipend every month. I think it's still similar now. Although I wanted an A-10 coming out of UPT, but instead got a KC-135 (great assignment) and later went to the initial cadre of B-1s when then came into the inventory. Had a great career. So, don't get zero'd in on fighters to the point that it's the be-all, end-all. Lots of really great missions and airplanes in the services.

With all due respect to your vast experience and what seems an outstanding and successful career, you can't scold this kid's valuation for wanting a fighter, because his chances of being able to replicate your own assignment history under the new tracking system is 0.000001%. You had the benefit of cross-flow, he will not. Ever since the T-1, you can kiss your fast-mover aspirations good bye forever if you don't track 38s. Some of us consider that reality to be unwarranted, when clearly there are examples, like yours, that prove that cross-flows worked. So, it's not the same yardstick being used.

Other than that, I agree with you about keeping perspective about the values that are important when considering a long pilot career in the AF.