Rock fight for FedEx?

[JethroF15]

PurpleMember... check your PMs. I sent an answer to your question.

 

[active_herk]

Member dues are ALPA standard, 1.95% of pay

 

[JethroF15]

Member dues are ALPA standard, 1.95% of pay

Well of course if you are FoxLeech and his other buddies, that make up less than 3% of the crew force, then your dues are 0%. Of course he still gets to operate under the exact same contract, same pay, gets the same retirement, and... get this... if he screws up and the company decides to take any action against him up to and including termination, then my union and it's lawyers HAVE to defend him and his job! Even though he pays nothing for any of the above. Pretty sweet deal as long as you have no moral problems with being a thief. And make no mistake... that is exactly what you and the other non-dues paying dirt bags are... thieves!

 

[Geronimo4497]

1.95% = Cheap Insurance. Is it tax deductable (I would imagine that it is).

No job for a low time Pilatus pilot I guess. Maybe in a few years *crosses fingers*

 

[Mr Zog]

Interesting topic. Just out of curiousity, how much are member dues? I can't imagine that it is a ton of money, considering what you guys make.

P.S. - Can I have a job?

It's just under 2% of your salary. So for a Capt who makes $200,000 it is a mere $4,000 for the year.

 

[active_herk]

1.95% = Cheap Insurance. Is it tax deductable (I would imagine that it is).

Yes, it is tax deductible, which in effect makes it even cheaper. To put things in perspective, I once had a 727 captain explain it this way... before the union, there was no B-Fund for retirement. When the union negotiated the first contract, we were able to establish a 6% B-fund; so assuming we got NOTHING else in the contract, we are still money ahead 4% with the union that we wouldn't have had otherwise. Everything else after that is gravy. I guess the non-union types figure management would have given us the 6% B-fund out of the goodness of their hearts (in the meantime management took away profit sharing from the rest of the employees and then offered up a dividend to the shareholders). Gee, I wonder who the number one shareholder is??

 

[Geronimo4497]

. I guess the non-union types figure management would have given us the 6% B-fund out of the goodness of their hearts (in the meantime management took away profit sharing from the rest of the employees and then offered up a dividend to the shareholders). Gee, I wonder who the number one shareholder is??

Hmmmmm, UPS?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Easy solution to the non-member financial problem...'contract administration fee' which equals 1.95% of pay...eliminates the financial incentive for being a non-member...you don't have to join, but you have to pay if you wanna keep the job. APA got this feature added to the contract with AA after the acquisition of TWA when they were worried about having too many non-members. Eagle has had it for years. Works good, and if people refuse to pay, the company is required to release them.

 

[Mr Zog]

Relax.. Why are we getting all worked up about 3% of the pilots? Heck, most of them are going to retire in the next few years, and unless you are doing the -10 MCO or ATL lines, you probably are never going to have to interact with them. I like having a "open shop", it sends a message to management that we WANT to be represented and will make the necessary sacrifices WILLINGLY. The 3% who are in the vast minority, if that is there choice so be it. IT IS A LOWSY 3%, focus on the 97%.....

 

[TonyC]

If they are not members then they are told good luck and come back and talk to us when you join the membership. They said why should they help out a nonmember with all the others members paying dues? If they helped out the non-members, then there would be no incentive to join the Union.
I feel ALPA should do the same. Why should my dues help protect another pilot who is not paying dues?
Let this happen to one pilot and see how fast they join the Union...

Rez O. No desrespect to you, but what if the Union would have told you, good luck on getting your job back, come talk to us later when you become a member. I am tired of my hard earned $ helping out someone who choose not to belong to the Ass... Lets do what the NEA does and tell the pilot "good luck, let us know how everything works out".

FedEx,

First of all, I believe you may have mistaken Rez O. Lewshun as the author of the above story. He is not. He simply pasted an article written by Capt. Frake recounting his ordeal.

Second, I think you may be confusing "legal counsel" with the representation which Capt. Frake received. The representation which Capt Frake received involved his dealings with the Company, and his wrongful termination. The collective bargaining agent (the "union") is obligated, by the same federal law which gives the employees the right to withhold services (strike), to represent each and every member of the class and craft (the pilots of FedEx) equally when it involves the collective bargaining agreemant (the contract) and the employer. Capt Frake was a target of pilot pushing. If the union is to ever protect pilots from pilot pushing, they must protect all pilots from pilot pushing, regardless of membership status.

Had FPA chosen to not grieve the termination, and a union member were to be fired the next day for similar "offenses," had the FPA then grieved the member's termination, Capt Frake would have had grounds to sue the union for failure to represent.

Now - - the legal counsel to which you refer might be a different animal. ALPA has vast legal resources available to members that might come in handy if a member runs afoul not of the Company, but of the FAA. Those resources would be available for a member to get his ticket back, but they would not be available to a non-member. There are certain benefits and privileges that attach to membership that are NOT required by federal law, and those benefits and privileges are NOT available to non-members. I believe the "legal benefits" to which you refer must fall into that category. If not, that union is opening itself to legal action.


Third, let's get off this topic - - it's non-productive. Wallow with a pig, and you just get muddy.









.

 

[6Pak]

And some of you doubt is this guy deserves the label of SCAB?!?!.. Take an old man whose been around the block, supported unions in the past, watched the slow erosion of lifestyle/compensation at FedEx, and then benefitted directly from a contract. Instead of quietly laying around soaking up the free ride, this scumbag, easily identifiable by name, finds a public forum and flames the men and the process under whose umbrella he is shielded from the sh1tstorm of current labor turmoil in aviation. Gentlemen, if you don't think he is a scab, or if you think there is degree of difference between those who ACTIVELY undermine our legal right to negotiate an expired contract and those who have crossed a picket line, then it is time to step back and take another look at the big picture. A SCAB is a SCAB.

 

[FoxHunter]

Easy solution to the non-member financial problem...'contract administration fee' which equals 1.95% of pay...eliminates the financial incentive for being a non-member...you don't have to join, but you have to pay if you wanna keep the job. APA got this feature added to the contract with AA after the acquisition of TWA when they were worried about having too many non-members. Eagle has had it for years. Works good, and if people refuse to pay, the company is required to release them.

ALPA does not have Agency Shop at FedEx and probably never get this included in a contract. A few year ago the company came to the union, FPA, with a reques for a LOA to ease some of the crew shortage due to the Postal Contract. It was my suggestion at the time that we should only ask one thing in return, "Agency Shop". Agency Shop is actually a zero cost item for any company. Our leadership, same as we have today was not interested. From what I recall we made a 32 page counter proposal which was DOA. No agreement, just the way we are heading again.

 

[FoxHunter]

And some of you doubt is this guy deserves the label of SCAB?!?!.. Take an old man whose been around the block, supported unions in the past, watched the slow erosion of lifestyle/compensation at FedEx, and then benefitted directly from a contract. Instead of quietly laying around soaking up the free ride, this scumbag, easily identifiable by name, finds a public forum and flames the men and the process under whose umbrella he is shielded from the sh1tstorm of current labor turmoil in aviation. Gentlemen, if you don't think he is a scab, or if you think there is degree of difference between those who ACTIVELY undermine our legal right to negotiate an expired contract and those who have crossed a picket line, then it is time to step back and take another look at the big picture. A SCAB is a SCAB.

Yes, I could sit back soaking up a free ride. I have chosen not to because I care about what happens at FedEx, and to the crew force here.

Some of you say that I have no say. I beg to disagree. As a nonmember I have every right to comment on what is going on at FedEx. As members you do not, unless it is in lock step with the direction of your leadership. At Tigers when we had the MEC making a fiasco with the dealing with Wolf there was a small group trying to change direction. One of the individuals was brought up on formal ALPA charges. He in the end was found not guilty. At that time I was in lock step with the MEC. As time went on I realized how foolish that was. Funny thing is that two of the Tiger ALPA leaders at that time were both on the nonmember list at FPA and then ALPA until the retired. One had actually served as an ALPA Executive VP. I guess they knew how to take a free ride.

You all appear very sensitive to any position counter to the line you have been fed by your leadership. I'm one individual taking a position. If I am wrong, time will prove it. If your leadership is correct I would be happy to pay my back dues and join.

 

[mongopilot]

Yes, I could sit back soaking up a free ride. I have chosen not to because I care about what happens at FedEx, and to the crew force here.

Some of you say that I have no say. I beg to disagree. As a nonmember I have every right to comment on what is going on at FedEx. As members you do not, unless it is in lock step with the direction of your leadership. At Tigers when we had the MEC making a fiasco with the dealing with Wolf there was a small group trying to change direction. One of the individuals was brought up on formal ALPA charges. He in the end was found not guilty. At that time I was in lock step with the MEC. As time went on I realized how foolish that was. Funny thing is that two of the Tiger ALPA leaders at that time were both on the nonmember list at FPA and then ALPA until the retired. One had actually served as an ALPA Executive VP. I guess they knew how to take a free ride.

You all appear very sensitive to any position counter to the line you have been fed by your leadership. I'm one individual taking a position. If I am wrong, time will prove it. If your leadership is correct I would be happy to pay my back dues and join.

George, one of those guys you mentioned said that he would join ALPA if we ever got ALPA back on the property. As you said, he didn't. It turns out he was just a cheap ass pilot. I think you will be proven wrong this time, so you better start saving your money to pay your back dues.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

FoxHunter,

I got lost in this thread. What exactly are trying to change at FedExby by not being a member? Why can't you make these changes by being a member? No flame, just wondering.

It sounds like you are upset over previous wrongdoings with the FedEx-Tiger merger and previous FPA/ALPA problems.

Since you are benefiting from the union, why don't you contribute to a charity with some of the dues you are not paying. That would go a long way toward making your decision look less self serving.

Don't know most of the members or non-members but I hope you all feel blessed by having good, stable jobs. Don't get too wrapped around the axle with contract negotiations, its not worth it.

FBJ

 

[seefive]

FH,

You won't pay **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** no matter the outcome. You are full of it though.

 

[FoxHunter]

George, one of those guys you mentioned said that he would join ALPA if we ever got ALPA back on the property. As you said, he didn't. It turns out he was just a cheap ass pilot. I think you will be proven wrong this time, so you better start saving your money to pay your back dues.

Sorry to say I'm not wrong this time unless changes are made soon. Time will tell. I have the money waiting if needed.

 

[sandman2122]

I'm sure you do after all of those years of freeloading!

 

[FedEx1]

C'mon y'all, stop making FoxHunter's day. He is stirring the pot and getting way to much fun out of it. Just let this thread die. The fire can't burn without fuel.

 

[FoxHunter]

I'm sure you do after all of those years of freeloading!

Son, I've been a nonmember since January 4, 2005. I was probably paying dues when you were still in liquid form.

 

[sandman2122]

I could care less if you quit yesterday, that still doesn't change the FACT that you're a NON-MEMBER free loader.

BTW, I'm not your "son", and I feel sorry if you do have any kids....what a pathetic example you've set if you do.......

 

[Los1]

Let's try this again ...

IGNORE!!!!
Los1

 

[FoxHunter]

I could care less if you quit yesterday, that still doesn't change the FACT that you're a NON-MEMBER free loader.

BTW, I'm not your "son", and I feel sorry if you do have any kids....what a pathetic example you've set if you do.......

Easy Sonny. or should I call you Willie?

 

[TonyC]

Let's try this again ...

IGNORE!!!!
Los1

Sooooo...


Anybody hear anything else about the System Chief Pilot's tyrade? I keep waiting for a follow-up message with a "Sticks and stones may break my bones..." theme.


On a funnier note, perhaps you'd care to share your initial reaction when you read the e-mail. My reaction was, "Huh?!?! This guy is the chief pilot?!?!".





I finally got my R-days moved - - See you on the 23rd!

ONE MORE DAY OF RETRO PAY !​

.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The non members reluctance to pay is not the "from the day they join" dues.

If the non members do join, they must back pay all the dues they skipped out on. This adds up to a chunk of change. Perhaps when ALPA came back to FredEx there was an agreement that non members could join and start at zero.

Confirm or deny?

If this wasn't incentive to join, I don't know what would be?



One cannot buy character

 

[TonyC]

The non members reluctance to pay is not the "from the day they join" dues.

If the non members do join, they must back pay all the dues they skipped out on. This adds up to a chunk of change. Perhaps when ALPA came back to FredEx there was an agreement that non members could join and start at zero.

Confirm or deny?

If this wasn't incentive to join, I don't know what would be?



One cannot buy character

Deny.

When FPA merged into ALPA, there were several programs available. The first, and most obvious was for members in good standing of FPA - - they became members in good standing of ALPA.

Non-members and members not in good standing were given opportunities to sign promissary notes and repay back dues at a very, very reasonable rate. In some cases, the pilots would retire before the entire obligation would have been repaid. These programs would have put them in good standing, and their status would have transferred to ALPA.

Those who chose not to become members in good standing with FPA were given the opportunity to pay ALPA what they would have owed to FPA. This was practically identical to the previous program, but allowed the pilot to pay ALPA instead of FPA if he had some sort of objection to FPA. (I know of one pilot in particular that claimed to have a problem in principle with paying a dime to FPA, who claimed to be saving his "dues money" in case we were ever able to get ALPA back on the property, and who subsequently sued ALPA because his obligation to FPA was not erased. So much for his principles. He's a non-member.)

The pilot group at FedEx has been through a tough educational process. From its roots as a staunch opponent of organizing to it's current 97+% ALPA membership in an "open shop" workplace, there have been tremendous strides. Stragglers have always been offered a helping hand, and a generous path to getting with the program. There are no excuses left.

What I find most despicable today is the decision of a dues-paying member in good standing, a veteran of the profession that should know better, intentionally withdrawing his membership and commencing to throw stones from outside the wall. But I digress.




See you on the 23rd!

ONE MORE DAY OF RETRO PAY !​

.

 

[6Pak]

And some of you doubt is this guy deserves the label of SCAB?!?!.. Take an old man whose been around the block, supported unions in the past, watched the slow erosion of lifestyle/compensation at FedEx, and then benefitted directly from a contract. Instead of quietly laying around soaking up the free ride, this scumbag, easily identifiable by name, finds a public forum and flames the men and the process under whose umbrella he is shielded from the sh1tstorm of current labor turmoil in aviation. Gentlemen, if you don't think he is a scab, or if you think there is a degree of difference between those who ACTIVELY undermine our legal right to negotiate an expired contract and those who have crossed a picket line, then it is time to step back and take another look at the big picture. A SCAB is a SCAB.

Take a closer look folks. Read his messsages. Why ignore or cease to encourage his opinion? Hear his pathetic excuses, learn his version of useless and wholly irrelevant history and it's impact on his participation, his assessment of the "value" of ALPA, his blatant attack on our right to negotiate and effect a new CBA, his promise of our assured failure because we lack his wisdom and experience. Learn this mantra because it is the silent but willfull disrespect directed at you, your families, and your union by ALL the other nonmembers at FedEx. This Scab differs only from the others only in that he is not smart enough to keep his freeloading, nonmember name out of the spotlight, choosing instead to berate and incite those whose dues support him. His nonmember friends, used to silent acceptance and the status quo, are assuredly horrified that one of their own is making waves while the rest of the slimy brethren are trying to slink through their careers without anyone noticing them, calling them out, or, God forbid, denying the privilege of a jumpseat. Those of you who continue to accept a nonmember for anything more than a Scab are guilty of complicity to the extent that your inaction breeds this kind of attack from the fringes. To fall back on the excuse that this isn't the "worst" kind of offender or not a "real" scab is to ignore the very fact that this is a member of our workgroup who wants us to fail. Your kind words, gentle encouragement, and quiet acceptance of these independent operators is the very reason they resist change. Instead of using the "ignore" feature, If possible I would opt for direct delivery of everything this scab says. Put the words with a name, and put the name with a face.

 

[FoxHunter]

And some of you doubt is this guy deserves the label of SCAB?!?!.. Take an old man whose been around the block, supported unions in the past, watched the slow erosion of lifestyle/compensation at FedEx, and then benefitted directly from a contract. Instead of quietly laying around soaking up the free ride, this scumbag, easily identifiable by name, finds a public forum and flames the men and the process under whose umbrella he is shielded from the sh1tstorm of current labor turmoil in aviation. Gentlemen, if you don't think he is a scab, or if you think there is a degree of difference between those who ACTIVELY undermine our legal right to negotiate an expired contract and those who have crossed a picket line, then it is time to step back and take another look at the big picture. A SCAB is a SCAB.

Take a closer look folks. Read his messsages. Why ignore or cease to encourage his opinion? Hear his pathetic excuses, learn his version of useless and wholly irrelevant history and it's impact on his participation, his assessment of the "value" of ALPA, his blatant attack on our right to negotiate and effect a new CBA, his promise of our assured failure because we lack his wisdom and experience. Learn this mantra because it is the silent but willfull disrespect directed at you, your families, and your union by ALL the other nonmembers at FedEx. This Scab differs only from the others only in that he is not smart enough to keep his freeloading, nonmember name out of the spotlight, choosing instead to berate and incite those whose dues support him. His nonmember friends, used to silent acceptance and the status quo, are assuredly horrified that one of their own is making waves while the rest of the slimy brethren are trying to slink through their careers without anyone noticing them, calling them out, or, God forbid, denying the privilege of a jumpseat. Those of you who continue to accept a nonmember for anything more than a Scab are guilty of complicity to the extent that your inaction breeds this kind of attack from the fringes. To fall back on the excuse that this isn't the "worst" kind of offender or not a "real" scab is to ignore the very fact that this is a member of our workgroup who wants us to fail. Your kind words, gentle encouragement, and quiet acceptance of these independent operators is the very reason they resist change. Instead of using the "ignore" feature, If possible I would opt for direct delivery of everything this scab says. Put the words with a name, and put the name with a face.

You've hurt my feelings. I'll just ignore your ignorance, history is a great teacher. BTW mr. braveheart put a name to your ID, I've never hidden mine. I guess we all understand you have reasons. Some day you may be able to gain some.

 

[UPS DC8]

Unity

You FedEx pilots have only one thing that will help you get that industry leading contract and that is UNITY. There are no other unions in FedEx that will stand shoulder to shoulder with you if you should need their support. If the company sees any fracture within the pilot group, they will do all they can to exploit this and drive a wedge even deeper. It may only be 3% non-members, but that 3% sure does give the company options.

I expect to have an industry leading contract soon, and expect FedEx to raise the bar even higher. Keep up the good fight...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You FedEx pilots have only one thing that will help you get that industry leading contract and that is UNITY. There are no other unions in FedEx that will stand shoulder to shoulder with you if you should need their support. If the company sees any fracture within the pilot group, they will do all they can to exploit this and drive a wedge even deeper. It may only be 3% non-members, but that 3% sure does give the company options.

I expect to have an industry leading contract soon, and expect FedEx to raise the bar even higher. Keep up the good fight...

I support UPS and FedEx!