RNO Air Races Crash

[Fubijaakr]

I've worked on and inspected my fair share of old airplanes. I'm not sure I'm 100% correct, but it might be time to park some of this WWII stuff? I know a good portion of the airplane has been replaced, but most of the mods are done to make it go faster. Racers might ought to be built from scratch and built just to race. The P51 was engineered to carrry weapons and fight.

Exactly. Time to move on. Race F-86s!

 

[ultrarunner]

I've worked on and inspected my fair share of old airplanes. I'm not sure I'm 100% correct, but it might be time to park some of this WWII stuff? I know a good portion of the airplane has been replaced, but most of the mods are done to make it go faster. Racers might ought to be built from scratch and built just to race. The P51 was engineered to carrry weapons and fight.

I'd agree. With the INSANE amount of money and wealth these folks play with, they could easily design and build a purpose-built racing machine. Something that can actually tolerate 500 kts indicated and the associated G's!

 

[dustrpilot]

I was there also and saw the whole thing from the time of the initial pullup. My point of reference was the west side of the airport facing pylon nine about 100 yards away. He was coming around the last pylon when the aircraft snapped level and then violently pulled vertical, most likely 20 G's. That stress would have caused the tailwheel to fall out. My guess is that he was unconscious from that point. The aircraft continued a vertical climb and right roll until it was pointed straight down and horizontal to impact. At the top point inverted, you can see in the photo that the pilot is slumped forward in his seat face down. The subsequent photos right before impact, he is no longer visible in the cockpit. I agree that his seat and or harness failed because of the violent pitch change, but disagree that he was still capable of flying the aircraft, or that the aircraft stalled. It was producing full power and hit at 300+ mph.

If it actually hit 20 g's I believe it would have shed it's wings.

 

[HalinTexas]

Ack, very well written explanation of how trim works. I think you hit the nail on the head; when that tab came off the nose came up so fast that he didn't have time to react before the G's took him out.

To HalinTexas, you trim for level flight, not for a turn. You're going way off the grid talking about turning and trimming.

That may be true under normal flying conditions. But he's racing and in extended high bank turns. You trim for speed, as well. With the throttle most likely wide open and very steep banked turns, there will be some diminished speed in the turns as vertical lift almost disappears. Much like steep turns (45º bank) during training. I've never flown a P51 or any racer, I don't know what the control forces in a 70º bank turn are, but I can't imagine holding it for an extended period of time. I wouldn't be surprised if they're using quite a bit of trim adjustment even if in small amounts.

Reno course

If the grandstands are the southern end of this course, that is an extended turn coming off of a longer straight away. If the winds were out of north or NW, there would be considerable loading while making this turn to stay on the course as well as "in the race."

But you're right. I'm probably way off base.

 

[ultrarunner]

Interesting that with all the extensive mods, they still use that tiny little elevator trim tab, and a single one at that. Be relatively simply to add a second one, or better yet, get rid of them and go with stab trim instead.

But as someone else suggest, they guys ain't gonna add weight unless it adds speed.

So there you go.

 

[DznFr$$]

Obviously, no one knows at this point what the G-load was. Investigators say there was a flight data recorder on board. Maybe that will shed some light on the actual conditions. In any case, it was abrupt and violent. The plane was at its fastest coming out of the valley of speed around pylon 8 to 9 when it happened. The Mustang has a trim tab on each elevator. Interestingly, there is a full page photo of Galloping Ghosts tail on page 49 of the Reno Air Race program.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Be relatively simply to add a second one, or better yet, get rid of them and go with stab trim instead.
.

Loading up a jackscrew on a stab trim??

 

[wnplt]

"Loading up a jackscrew on a stab trim?"

That didn't go so well for Alaska Flight 261

 

[dougdrvr]

Interesting that with all the extensive mods, they still use that tiny little elevator trim tab, and a single one at that. Be relatively simply to add a second one, or better yet, get rid of them and go with stab trim instead.

But as someone else suggest, they guys ain't gonna add weight unless it adds speed.

So there you go.

I've heard from several sources that the pitch trim was modified to add electric actuation.

Ack's discription is well written and spot on.

 

[dougdrvr]

Exactly. Time to move on. Race F-86s!

There is a jet class. Anyone wants to race an F-86 could, if qualified and meet the safety inspections would be free to do so. Except for the "D" model (I don't think they allow afterburners)

 

[ultrarunner]

"Loading up a jackscrew on a stab trim?"

That didn't go so well for Alaska Flight 261

Sure didn't and that'll happen when you don't maintain a jackscrew properly!

But I stand by my comment. Some biz jets are capable of nearly 400 kts indicated at SL. Stab trim works great.

BUT, I agree....lighter is better. So yeah, while you could easily design something safer, you're gonna make it heavier, and slower. They rich boys ain't about slower!

Press on!

 

[SENECAII]

This video shows a different view of the tragedy.(No crash)

http://vimeo.com/29519344

 

[retired guy]

The P51 was designed to do about 440kts and had two trim tabs. This machine was doin` about 550 with one trim tab, the one on the right side was removed and replaced with a ground trimmable one, just to shed small amount of weight.That one was doing the work of two and at 100 knots faster than it was designed to do. Also, the airfoil is a laminer flow design, which added to the tendency to add more lift at high speeds. What I can`t figure out is why there was no explosion and fire.

 

[bubbers44]

They were pushing 500 mph, not knots. The telemetry said he was about 500 mph when he crashed. It happened over our heads so we saw the whole thing. The acceleration lift and possitive G's moved the crash from our seat section to in front of the stands in the front boxes.

Did Voodoo ever change back to two trim tabs after their first failure?

 

[SENECAII]

At 6:57 a similar problem is observed in turn 2 that happened just prior to the accident.

 

[Sandhawk]

There is a jet class. Anyone wants to race an F-86 could, if qualified and meet the safety inspections would be free to do so. Except for the "D" model (I don't think they allow afterburners)

Actually F-86 - D, K, & L models all have AB

 

[skid]

What I can`t figure out is why there was no explosion and fire.

I think this has to do with the cooling system onboard. I may be wrong of the liquid used but instead of the cooling scoop they used a boil off style system. They may have used an ADI, kinda like what is injected into the engine at race power. (One thing added to put 3500+ HP thru a merlin) I think this tub of liquid played a factor as it vaporized with the fuel they mixed and the mix does not allow ignition.

All I can say it is a sad thing! I feel for the families and would have loved to see her do what she was built to do!

 

[booo]

Exactly. Time to move on. Race F-86s!

My guess is that you have never been to the Reno Air Races............

The day that the last Merlin engine leaves Reno will be the death knell for the races.

The sound of the Merlin engine, passing over you at 500 feet and 500 mph, is visceral, romantic, spiritual, and patriotic. You feel it in your heart, your bones, and in your loins. No other man made machine will inspire you like the the Merlin engine.

Play the last 30 minutes of "Saving Private Ryan" at full volume on your home theater for a "taste" of it.

Unfortunately, most of the remaining Merlin engines are going to Thunderboats, such as "Miss Budweiser". What a shame!

 

[Mud Eagle]

Unfortunately, most of the remaining Merlin engines are going to Thunderboats, such as "Miss Budweiser". What a shame!

The shame is that you haven't checked in with hydroplane racing, apparently, since the early 1990s.

There haven't been Merlin-powered hydros for 21 years. The Bud hasn't been piston-powered since 1985 (starting in 1986 until the team went away in 2004 it was powered by a T-55 turbine engine), and even in those years leading up to '85 it was powered by a Griffon, not a Merlin.

As is, the last real 'thunderboat' was powered by an Allison, and that went away a couple years ago.

 

[wmuflyguy]

This video shows a different view of the tragedy.(No crash)

http://vimeo.com/29519344

Looked like the trim tab didn't depart til after the initial pull up. That isn't to say the control linkage hadn't failed and it was just fluttering in the slipstream.