RJDC What does this mean?

[RM7599]

I'm am somewhat ignorant when it comes to this whole RJDC thing. What exactly does it mean. Does it mean, that it will be next to impossible for a regional pilot to make it to the majors? This has always been somewhat of a stepping stone.....now, will there be no way to make it to the majors. I don't want to be stuck at the regionals my entire career. Yes, I realize that it is not that easy to make it to the majors, but, now are my hopes and dreams even further compounded by this RJDC thing. I'm not trying to start a flame, I simply don't understand the ramifications of this.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why don't you ask the RJDC on their web site?

I do not know what you are quoting from, or what you are writing about. If this is the conclusion of some sort of statistical analysis the answer will be on the RJDC site - most of their research is published.

www.rjdefense.com

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

I would suggest that you find your info from a less biased source than the rjdc's website. I'll be kind and say that the information you will find there is less than, shall we say...universally accepted. Believe it or not, this board is a more balanced source of info. I agree with your premise, and have posted the reasons herein. Others disagree, and have done the same. Read past posts, the rjdc's site, alpa's site, and talk to all the pilots you can. Then decide.

It would be unwise to get all of your info from an obviously biased source like rjdc.org (done on purpose, I can't bring myself to advertise for them).

 

[RM7599]

I'm just a guy who is about to begin my flight training now that I have completed college, and I'm just curious as to how this might affect my goal of flying for the majors. I'm not affiliated with anyone or anything, it's just me.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Well now I better understand you inquiry. In all probability the RJDC means little to nothing in your quest to become a "major airline pilot" however you define that term.

The market will set pilot employment requirements - regardless of what ALPA, or the RJDC, may do.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

RM,

I disagree with fins, and believe that the rjdc, if successful, will mean far fewer of the types of jobs that most pilots dream of.

Some disagree with me (of course). It is for that reason that I advised you to gather your info from a variety of sources before you decide.

Best of luck in your career.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fly Delta's Jets:

How would repairing ALPA's representational problems result in fewer mainline jobs?

If pilots at the non ALPA preferred airlines were given the same representation, perhaps the standard would be raised.

In any event, before you misrepresent the RJDC as being anti - scope, the RJDC is pro scope. Scope is absolutely necessary as the glue that binds the company to the contract.

What the RJDC is against is the sort of predatory bargaining the US Airways MEC just engaged in, where one group of pilots uses the exclusive bargaining agent status of the union to harm other pilot groups. The RJDC correctly opines that equal representation would go a long way to thwart the abuse of the union that is currently going on.

 

[skydiverdriver]

If you want to find out more about the rjdc, just look up the posts made by Surplus1, and flydeltasjets. That will give you what we feel is both sides of the story. The rjdc website is a good place to start, since there is no opposing website to look at. They also have email so you can send them questions. Both sides are available. Good luck.

 

[328dude]

RM7599:


If your just starting you flight training my friend, I wouldn't worry about the RJDC right now. Concentrate on your ratings and getting the time and experience for a airline job or corporate.

Berst of luck

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Fly Delta's Jets:

How would repairing ALPA's representational problems result in fewer mainline jobs?

If pilots at the non ALPA preferred airlines were given the same representation, perhaps the standard would be raised.

In any event, before you misrepresent the RJDC as being anti - scope, the RJDC is pro scope. Scope is absolutely necessary as the glue that binds the company to the contract.

First of all, I don't agree that any carrier receives different "representation".

Secondly, the rjdc is NOT pro-scope (in my opinion, of course). The language of their lawsuit asks a judge to enjoin ALPA from supporting contract which "exercises control over another pilot group." Show me a single scope clause in the country that doesn't exercise some control over another pilot group. That is the very purpose of scope, to try to prevent another pilot group from doing your flying. I believe that if the rjdc is successful, it will lead to attacks on all scope clauses, using this case as precedent. I have said this before, and will probably say it again, but I believe that it is naive to think that you can eliminate only the scope which you deem offensive, without putting ALL scope in jeopardy. So yes, I do believe the rjdc is anti-scope. That might not be their intent, but I think it will be the result (if they win, which I doubt).

Also, if you read the lawsuit you will find that if it is successful, you will have eliminated our ability to keep mgt from operating 777's at CMR. This may sound good to you now, but wait until you see the effects of the bidding war that will create.

 

[skydiverdriver]

FDJ,
Well, I take it you believe that if they win, they will get everything word for word that they asked for in the lawsuit? I'm not a lawyer, but I dont' think that's how it works. Don't worry, if they were going to get something that would eliminate all scope, they would drop that portion. Anyway, the only way that would happen is if scope were illegal, and I don't think it is. Scoping your own airline might be, but not all scope.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

SDD,

You seem to have more faith than I. If I were suing, I would not ask for something that I didn't want. You seem to believe that is exactly what they are doing.

I'm sorry, but what you think they "might" do is just not enough for me. I must continue to focus on what they are asking for.

 

[RM7599]

I just wanted to thank all who responded to my question regarding the RJDC. Apparently, this is a very sensative subject matter......based on some of the responses. I think I will simply concentrate on my training, as someone suggested. However, this gave me a little insight into my question. Thanks again!!!

 

[skydiverdriver]

It's just like negotiations, you ask for the world, and settle for much less. I don't think they are asking for things they don't want, but I do think they won't get everything they are asking for. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what actually happens. Not much we can do about it now, I suppose. Even if I changed my mind and thought it was a bad idea, what could I do to stop it? Good luck to you.

 

[414Flyer]

Maybe this is a dumb question in the minds of some, but I am not with an airline so bear with me.

But would it not be better for the mainline pilots/alpa to want work together with the commuter pilots, in order to keep as much of the airline flying mainline as possible, by being united as airline pilots.

Just seems that if they brought the commuters into what was happening, treated the commuter pilots as pilots, instead of unwanted stepchildren, fought hard to make quality of life as the commuters as good as possible, that the commuter pilots would not be forced to find ways to do it on their own.

But when some do not even want their fellow ALPA pilots at the commuters to be involved in scope discussions, when ALPA seems to represent commuter pilots only when it is convienent or serves mainline purposes, or seems to enthusiastically give the USAir wholly owned commuter pilots a royal butt reaming, I can completely understand commuter pilots thinking they have to take actions into their own hands.

And as much as I hate this phrase, but doesnt treating the commuter pilots as second class citizens just "play into the hands of management", since it forces them to do do what they can for themselves. Management can then talk to the commuter pilots as a group, instead of facing a united group of mainline/commuter pilots.

If the mainline pilots want the commuter pilots to do their "bidding" for the good of the profession, why not treat them with more respect and as equals. The end goal is the same with most all the pilots. Why not bring them in and work together for that same goal?

But then I am not an airline pilot so maybe I am way off base, and just do not understand

 

[Britpilot]

Maybe this is a dumb question in the minds of some, but I am not with an airline so bear with me.

But would it not be better for the mainline pilots/alpa to want work together with the commuter pilots, in order to keep as much of the airline flying mainline as possible, by being united as airline pilots.

Just seems that if they brought the commuters into what was happening, treated the commuter pilots as pilots, instead of unwanted stepchildren, fought hard to make quality of life as the commuters as good as possible, that the commuter pilots would not be forced to find ways to do it on their own.

But when some do not even want their fellow ALPA pilots at the commuters to be involved in scope discussions, when ALPA seems to represent commuter pilots only when it is convienent or serves mainline purposes, or seems to enthusiastically give the USAir wholly owned commuter pilots a royal butt reaming, I can completely understand commuter pilots thinking they have to take actions into their own hands.

And as much as I hate this phrase, but doesnt treating the commuter pilots as second class citizens just "play into the hands of management", since it forces them to do do what they can for themselves. Management can then talk to the commuter pilots as a group, instead of facing a united group of mainline/commuter pilots.

If the mainline pilots want the commuter pilots to do their "bidding" for the good of the profession, why not treat them with more respect and as equals. The end goal is the same with most all the pilots. Why not bring them in and work together for that same goal?

But then I am not an airline pilot so maybe I am way off base, and just do not understand

Not way off base at all, in fact very close to home base. There is a problem within ALPA with regard to representation of the non major carriers. I say non major as we have yet to settle on a handle that pleases every one, but "commuter" is definitely out. Anyway even though the major carrier membership will claim otherwise, there is a very real conflict of interest ocurring at many of the ALPA carriers. My airline is a prime example with ongoing discussions about seperate MEC's. My own humble opinion is that the ALPA leadership does not treat the non major carrier membership as equals with the major carrier membership. Maybe it is just a money thing, but it needs to be addressed. Or am I way off base here?

 

[Timebuilder]

Here, here, Nigel.

414 has the gist of it. If pilots want to be a forceful variable in the aviation business equation, than we are better off if we stand together. I'm at a loss to understand how the mainline US Airways pilots are content to give the shaft to their brothers at the WO's. I'm in awe that Delta's MEC wouldn't get together with the Comair guys to coordinate efforts. It says "Delta" on the front of every RJ, and that RJ pays a lot of money into the coffers that pay Delta mainline pilots.

Such insanity.

 

[Britpilot]

Here, here, Nigel.

414 has the gist of it. If pilots want to be a forceful variable in the aviation business equation, than we are better off if we stand together. I'm at a loss to understand how the mainline US Airways pilots are content to give the shaft to their brothers at the WO's. I'm in awe that Delta's MEC wouldn't get together with the Comair guys to coordinate efforts. It says "Delta" on the front of every RJ, and that RJ pays a lot of money into the coffers that pay Delta mainline pilots.

Such insanity.

Even better is that the company that I work for was IPO'ed in order to replace 150 million dollars to the main line pension fund that was "under funded". Still not much unity from our mainline "brothers" even after their pension was funded by our sale. I belive their is more to come as our contract renewal approaches. watch this space.