RJDC Update

[surplus1]

Just an extremely vocal few attempting to use the courts to gain what they could never gain on their own.

So, just what is it that you think we're trying to gain that we can't get on our own? Would it be a "mainline job" by any chance?

If you really think that obtaining fair representation is evil, I feel sorry for you.

If you feel that your own propaganda about what we supposedly want is real, have the courage of your convictions and don't hide them behind inuendo.

 

[skydiverdriver]

It seems awfully interesting to me that Duane Woerth feels that Freedom Air is a Frank Lorenzo type operation, but he seems to have no problem with Potomac Air. If anyone feels this is fair and legal, please enlighten me as to why. I think it only depends on who gets hurt.

 

[fatburger]

I guess the only difference between Freedom Air and Potomac is:

Potomac will be represented by ALPA and

Freedom Air won't!

That's a pretty big difference.

 

[checkessential]

Scope is dead, along with any airline that lets these mainline clowns run their business.

Have a nice day

 

[checkessential]

No, not really the case here. Granted, it seems that being on furlough is a lofty career goal for myself, and ultimatlely coming back to a job flying RJ's for $50 an hour, through a scam set up by my union brothers to destroy careers of those at the regionals, I think that I'll try anyway. Ok with you?

 

[Boeingman]

Sounds like the final desperate cry of someone stuck in their regional job with no hope of ever making it to a major. So maybe you and your RJDC brothers (all 3 of them) can continue to hold out hope of destroying as many mainline jobs as possible so no one else will be able to have them, either.

Maybe it's time you take your ball and go home.

I think it is Surplus and his TWO brothers. I'll guess he is one of the plaintiffs in the case. No one in their right mind would spend as much time writing as he does about it unless they were DIRECTLY involved.

That aside, you got right to the heart of it.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Hey Trainerjet,
If these things are so boring, then why has every single rjdc string been more popular than ANY other subject on this board?

You guys can discount us, but we are not just three people. I talk to rjdc supporters every day. Of course, I work for an airline, and many of you only see yourselves as "regional" pilots, hoping to someday work for a major airline.

 

[surplus1]

I think it is Surplus and his TWO brothers. I'll guess he is one of the plaintiffs in the case. No one in their right mind would spend as much time writing as he does about it unless they were DIRECTLY involved.

Your guess is wrong but that's in keeping with much of what you've said.

Surplus is NOT one of the plaintiffs. I am involved for two reasons:

1) I'm a unionist at heart. I believe in unions and their purpose. I hate to see what has been a good union perverted and destroyed by misguided leaders who serve their own political interests and power, instead of the interests of the membership. I oppose any form of corruption in a labor union.

2) I'm a Comair pilot and my fellow pilots are being injured by the union's activities. I will do what I can to stand with them and attempt to right the wrongs.

I have nothing to gain personally from the outcome and nothing to lose. I'm just doing what I believe is right and I'm not concerned about whose mainline pin-feathers get ruffled. I enjoy defending the weak from the predatory behavior of the strong.

Question to you: Is standing up for what is right something that is lost on mainline pilots? Is $$ the only thing that motivates you? IF so, that's a sorry state of affairs. The founders of our union were not of that ilk.

BTW, you "quoted" trainerjet but I can't seem to find those remarks in any of his posts. Did you import them from another thread? Can you help me find where he said that?

Just so you'll both know, a mainline job isn't something I want, need or envy. BTDT and got the T-shirt. It never swelled my head, thank God.

 

[trainerjet]

Surplus

Don't know what happened to the original post, but Boeingman has it in it's entirety in his imported quote.

SDD

I work for an airline, too. What's your point????

 

[surplus1]

Trainerjet

OK. Apparently your post was somehow deleted from this thread.

Anyway, you're off base on that. Way off base.

Just curious. What is your airline affiliation currently? I was thinking SWA for a while but you don't seem to talk like any of the SWA people I know.

 

[fatburger]

Hi Surplus1-

Are you saying that you have zero desire to work at a major airline? To expand a little bit-- you don't have any desire to fly left seat in a 757/767 or 777 or 747 or A330/340 someday? The benefits, schedule and vacation that come with flying for a major are quite attractive.

Either your spouse has a very good job or you are independently wealthy!! You can tell me all day long that you don't but I'd being willing to bet a lot of cookies that deep down inside you do.

Hell, maybe you don't but there aren't to many of you out there. I'd say less than 10 pilots at each regional/express carrier can honestly say they don't have a desire to fly for a major.

I'm curious if you have ever interviewed or tried to get an interview with a major? And also, how large is the membership for the rjdc? Thanks for your time.

fatburger

 

[surplus1]

All Good Logical Questions

Hi Surplus1-

Are you saying that you have zero desire to work at a major airline? To expand a little bit-- you don't have any desire to fly left seat in a 757/767 or 777 or 747 or A330/340 someday? The benefits, schedule and vacation that come with flying for a major are quite attractive.

No, that's not what I'm saying, that's just what you're reading into it. Not everyone that works for a regional airline came there from flying school. This is not my first airline job. Many years ago(too many to mention) I was the captain of a 4-engine jet flying in international service. Therefore, it is not something that I aspire to do, it is something that I have already done. Yes, the pay is very attractive. It wasn't up to today's standards at DAL, but it was pretty good even for then. Sorry, I'm just not a new kid on the block.

Either your spouse has a very good job or you are independently wealthy!! You can tell me all day long that you don't but I'd being willing to bet a lot of cookies that deep down inside you do.

LOL, I wish I was independently wealthy (I'd donate some to the RJDC). My wife fired me a long time ago (said I was gone too much = happiness). I didn't get a new one 'cause they're high maintenance and what they have is usually free anyway. My kids are grown and I have grandkids that aren't babies. See above for the other.

Hell, maybe you don't but there aren't to many of you out there. I'd say less than 10 pilots at each regional/express carrier can honestly say they don't have a desire to fly for a major.

I don't know if most airline pilots want to fly "for a major", but I would agree that most pilots want to fly big airplanes. In my day, it was because they were big and cool. Today I think it all revolves around $$, with little genuine enthusiasm about simply flying for the sake of flying.

I'm curious if you have ever interviewed or tried to get an interview with a major? And also, how large is the membership for the rjdc? Thanks for your time.

Yes, I've interviewed more than once, been rejected more than once and been hired more than once. There are some places where I never bothered to apply (more than where I did).

I honestly don't know how many people contribute to the RJDC (there are no "members", just supporters). All I can say is that the litigants are NOT wealthy, the litigation is VERY expensive and it is ALL funded by donations from pilots. The amount expended to date is well over six figures (I'm told) and they have yet to spend one day in a courtroom. They haven't even been through the "discovery" phase yet.

If you have a few bucks you can spare to help defend the rights of pilots to be represented fairly by their union, I'm sure your donation would be welcome. Check it out on the website.

No problem with the time part. As much as I write on here, you can see I have lots of time to spare. As someone said, "An idle mind is the devils workshop."

 

[skydiverdriver]

Boeingman,
I agree that mr Surplus is very well educated, and well spoken on the matters of the rjdc. However, so is Flydeltasjets. So, why do you say something disparaging about Surplus, but not FDJ? I think they are both intellegent and well informed people, who use valid arguements to make their point. You, however, use name calling and innuendo, that make no points.

Fatburger,
Why do you think that since Surplus supports the rjdc and it's goals, that he couldn't possibly want to be a mainline pilot? I don't think he does, but I do, and I support the rjdc. Why? Because of two main reasons. One, is that sometimes you have to do the right thing, even if it doesn't benefit you personally. Second, is that I think the goals of the rjdc, if reached, will help ALL pilots, major or "regional."

 

[enigma]

Re: Re: Point for Surplus 1

Thanks for your thoughts but I don't agree that the RJDC should change its name. If there were no RJs, ALPA would not be doing what it is. The agenda of the ALPA is intent on stopping the RJ. So intent that ALPA is willing to violate its own rules and its DFR to the regional pilots in order to pursue that agenda. The name is not misplaced.

The purpose of the litigation is to force the union to carry out its duty of fair representation to ALL its members. Not just to mainline pilots. In my opinion that duty has been violated already and continues to be violated over and over again. It has to stop.

Mainline pilots would do well to stop trying to "spin" the reasons for the litigation into a campaign that serves their interest at the expense of the rest of us.

Surplus, First let me say that I can be convinced. I am opinionated, but my ego is not such that I am unable to change my mind and accept that I was mistaken. I'll continue to debate this name issue until ya'll change my mind or you give up; or I change your mind.
You wrote, "Thanks for your thoughts but I don't agree that the RJDC should change its name. If there were no RJs, ALPA would not be doing what it is." I would submit to you that your statement is only an opinion. How do you know that ALPA would not be doing what it is if there were no RJ's?
You wrote, "The agenda of the ALPA is intent on stopping the RJ." Unless I have missed something, and it is quite possible that I did, ALPA has not stated what you are attributing to them. I would argue that ALPA is intent on stopping the loss of mainline jobs to other carriers. It is only coincidental that the other carriers are flying RJ's . (remember that I'm only debating the need for the RJDC to change its name, not the merits of either case)
You wrote, "The purpose of the litigation is to force the union to carry out its duty of fair representation to ALL its members. Not just to mainline pilots." To that I ask, since the fight is over RJ's, (as you said, "If there were no RJs, ALPA would not be doing what it is") why is the litigation aimed at forcing the union to represent all of its members, should the litigation not be aimed at forcing the union to represent all of its airplanes?
You claim that the title is appropriate, yet most of your post addressed the need for pilots to be properly represented. I agree that pilots need to be represtented, and the more I learn about your case, I'm beginning to agree that you all have not been properly represented.

regards,
8N

 

[RJFlyer]

Well, I had stepped back from these discussions as there was nothing new being said, and nothing new to say. Now there is a legitimate issue being raised, with the obvious conflict of interest being perpetrated by ALPA in this latest US Air agreement, and (almost) everyone ignores it and returns to the same old "you don't get it," "no, YOU don't get it" arguments and name-calling.

How about getting back to the issue - namely, ALPA has negotiated a deal which will break (subvert? pervert?) contracts negotiated by ALPA on behalf of the US Air regionals, in order to benefit ALPA US Air mainline pilots. Forget for a moment that the RJDC even exists. How can you major pilots really look at this issue and not see that this is not legal , and simply not right? Many of you may or may not be right in guessing that the true number of RJDC supporters is quite small. But this new and disturbing problem just may swell the ranks.

There are some very disturbing things going on up in Fortress ALPA, when they think they can perpetrate this kind of insult on other ALPA 'brothers' with impunity. I am VERY concerned.