RJDC Update 10-28-06

[braveheart]

RJ Defense Coalition
Ensuring One Level of Representation
www.rjdefense.com

Industry and Litigation Update
October 28, 2006​

This update includes:​

1. ALPA Admits it Withheld Crucial Information from the Piedmont and Allegheny Pilots.
2. FAA Proposes to Restrict Small Jet Access to LaGuardia
3. ALPA Says its Small Jet Restrictions Conform to Management’s Plans
4. Is ALPA Attempting to Kill Off Mesaba?
5. Litigation to Enter Next Phase
6. Deposition Transcripts Now On-Line
7. Will ALPA's Own Conduct Doom the Skywest Organizing Drive?
   
8. [FONT=Arial,sans-serif]ALPA’s Small Jet Pilots Pay for ALPA’s Failure to Reform
   [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]LINK: [/FONT] [FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Update (Adobe Acrobat 70k)[/FONT]

 

[doug_or]

popcorn anyone?

 

[cl65capt]

Does anyone really care?

 

[Huck]

Keep telling yourself you're smart, Dan.....

 

[PCL_128]

RJ Defense Coalition
Ensuring One Level of Representation
www.rjdefense.com

Industry and Litigation Update
October 28, 2006​

This update includes:​

​

1. Lies
2. Distortions
3. Half-truths
4. Misleadings
5. Bull$hit
6. Propoganda
7. Rhetoric

 

[braveheart]

This update includes:​

1. Lies

​

PCL_128,

Item #1 in the RJDC update was taken from, and provided links to, sworn deposition transcripts. Rather than screaming "LIES!", how about pointing out what parts you believe are false and, like the RJDC, provide some factual references to support your arugments.

http://www.rjdefense.com/legal_info.htm

 

[Sig]

This update includes:​

1. Lies
2. Distortions
3. Half-truths
4. Misleadings
5. Bull$hit
6. Propoganda
7. Rhetoric

Considering what I read (39 of 124 pages) of Beebe's examination so far, you are absolutely right. He is:

A liar, telling distortions and half-truths (desparate:desire), a misleading bull$hit propagandist that's high as a kite on his own rhetoric... good call!

*edit

If his testimony on p.57 alone doesn't affirm both notions that ALPA is staffed by 1st class imbeciles AND obfuscatory doubletalking liars, nothing does.

How is it possible that he has no clear recollection how the J4J deal went down- yet he'll declare himself an authority on who was at the table? Why the MESA reference? Why forget PSA now?


I gotta go puke.

 

[braveheart]

Sig,

Thanks for taking the time to read the documentation. But if I read PCL's post correctly (and all his others on the subject), he's accusing the RJDC of being the liars and propagandists.

But your post cuts to the chase, there is a significant difference between ALPA's public rhetoric and its actual conduct. Much of this is now coming to light as ALPA is forced to give account for its actions.

www.rjdefense.com

 

[John Pennekamp]

RJDC= Really Just Don't Care

 

[G2T]

RJDC= Really Just Don't Care

TDWAI= Then Don't Worry About It

 

[Catbird]

Chris "I can't Recall" Beebe, he reminds me of the Colorado preacher and his boyfriend. Replace Haggard with Beebe and his boyfriend with Worthless and you have the same couple. Only difference is the Preacher has a better memory.My checks in the mail with a little extra to the RJDC. Keep up the good work, you have the Cabana Boys and the rest of the scumbags in the Executive offices in National reaching for another Midol tablet and a MaxiPad.

 

[General Lee]

An RJDC member is most likely a LAZY pilot. He doesn't want to give up his vacation, weekends, or especially the left seat. He wants to fly bigger planes without going the normal route, which is getting hired by a larger airline that isn't a regional. He wants it all, without leaving his left seat, fearing correctly that he would be scrutinized greatly by any Legacy or LCC Captain for his poor airmanship. He hopes and dreams to fly that larger plane for the same pay, while he sits there in Myrtle Beach on his 4 week vacation. He is LAZY.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

An RJDC member is most likely a LAZY pilot. He doesn't want to give up his vacation, weekends, or especially the left seat. He wants to fly bigger planes without going the normal route, which is getting hired by a larger airline that isn't a regional. He wants it all, without leaving his left seat, fearing correctly that he would be scrutinized greatly by any Legacy or LCC Captain for his poor airmanship. He hopes and dreams to fly that larger plane for the same pay, while he sits there in Myrtle Beach on his 4 week vacation. He is LAZY.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, from what I hear most of the RJDC types are PFTers who could never get a part 121 job without first opening their check book. It is my understanding that they tend to lack the basic airmanship and personality to pass an interview.

 

[PCL_128]

Keep up the good work, you have the Cabana Boys and the rest of the scumbags in the Executive offices in National reaching for another Midol tablet and a MaxiPad.

Keep dreaming. I doubt anyone in Herndon is giving much thought to this silly litigation. Reading through the depositions, it became extremely obvious that the RJDC won't even have a shred of a case on this one. This is all but over.

 

[WSurf]

An RJDC member is most likely a LAZY pilot. He doesn't want to give up his vacation, weekends, or especially the left seat. He wants to fly bigger planes without going the normal route, which is getting hired by a larger airline that isn't a regional. He wants it all, without leaving his left seat, fearing correctly that he would be scrutinized greatly by any Legacy or LCC Captain for his poor airmanship. He hopes and dreams to fly that larger plane for the same pay, while he sits there in Myrtle Beach on his 4 week vacation. He is LAZY.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Lee, you sound a bit jealous! Lazy is good!! Work!!! Now that will kill you!!! lol

Whats wrong with Mytle Beach!!! Its the Redneck Riviera!!! Daisy and Kooter go twice a year!!!

 

[SkyBoy1981]

TDWAI= Then Don't Worry About It

TWTIPDS = This Whole Thread Is Pretty Darn Stupid

 

[regionaltard]

Keep dreaming. I doubt anyone in Herndon is giving much thought to this silly litigation.

Translation: LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa Ican'thearyouIcan'thearyou........

 

[172driver]

An RJDC member is most likely a LAZY pilot. He doesn't want to give up his vacation, weekends, or especially the left seat. He wants to fly bigger planes without going the normal route, which is getting hired by a larger airline that isn't a regional. He wants it all, without leaving his left seat, fearing correctly that he would be scrutinized greatly by any Legacy or LCC Captain for his poor airmanship. He hopes and dreams to fly that larger plane for the same pay, while he sits there in Myrtle Beach on his 4 week vacation. He is LAZY.

Because legacy and LCC pilots are much better airmen than regional turds? A typical response from a Delta pilot. It's ok Jen, we all know that Delta pilots are the best in the business as evidenced by the snotty attitude, outdated, double-breasted tool suit, the unnecessary verbatim readbacks on the radio, the constant windchecks, and the reports of moderate and severe turbulence (in a scared, whiny voice) when everyone else is calling it light chop. I also love watching the barely controlled crash landings every time you guys face a x-wind above ten knots.

For you to call an RJ pilot a lazy pilot or an inferior airman is classic Delta arrogance. How many six leg days do you put in every month? How much time do you spend up and down through the weather? How many nonprecision approaches do you do every month? How much airmanship is actually required in your job versus mine, or, even better, someone flying a 1900 all day?

The RJDC is saying is that we are as good as you, we are not an inferior class of pilots. We deserve representation too. Unfortunately our union, like our government, is driven by the dollar, thus they pander to idiots like you, only serving to blow your ego up even further.

Why should someone be forced to leave their left seat, their seniority, their vacation in order to have a voice in their own union??? I know, god forbid lazy second-class pilots like us ever fly anything that could be flown by the masters of the sky...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Nerds

A whole bunch of gibberish back and forth by the drones of its respective Borg collectives. But NO talk whatsoever about what should be the topic of conversation. To bring ALL flying displaying mainline colors under ONE list, ONE pilot group, ONE contract. Eliminate outsourcing all together.

Both ALPA and the RJDC suck. Happy now? uke:

 

[crashpad]

How many six leg days do you put in every month? How much time do you spend up and down through the weather? How many nonprecision approaches do you do every month? How much airmanship is actually required in your job versus mine, or, even better, someone flying a 1900 all day?

The RJDC is saying is that we are as good as you, we are not an inferior class of pilots.

Agreed 172, the feeder pilot busts butt. It's called gaining experience to ultimately attain the goal of flying a larger aircraft and being responsible for the safety of greater numbers of passengers per plane.

I hear you barking big dog, but you're sounding like the 20 million illegal aliens claiming their right to amnesty. You are not 'indigenous' to the major airlines. You must 'apply' for citizenship first.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I hear you barking big dog, but you're sounding like the 20 million illegal aliens claiming their right to amnesty. You are not 'indigenous' to the major airlines. You must 'apply' for citizenship first.

Congratulations. That is the single stupidest comment so far.

 

[WSurf]

Because legacy and LCC pilots are much better airmen than regional turds? A typical response from a Delta pilot. It's ok Jen, we all know that Delta pilots are the best in the business as evidenced by the snotty attitude, outdated, double-breasted tool suit, the unnecessary verbatim readbacks on the radio, the constant windchecks, and the reports of moderate and severe turbulence (in a scared, whiny voice) when everyone else is calling it light chop. I also love watching the barely controlled crash landings every time you guys face a x-wind above ten knots.

For you to call an RJ pilot a lazy pilot or an inferior airman is classic Delta arrogance. How many six leg days do you put in every month? How much time do you spend up and down through the weather? How many nonprecision approaches do you do every month? How much airmanship is actually required in your job versus mine, or, even better, someone flying a 1900 all day?

The RJDC is saying is that we are as good as you, we are not an inferior class of pilots. We deserve representation too. Unfortunately our union, like our government, is driven by the dollar, thus they pander to idiots like you, only serving to blow your ego up even further.

Why should someone be forced to leave their left seat, their seniority, their vacation in order to have a voice in their own union??? I know, god forbid lazy second-class pilots like us ever fly anything that could be flown by the masters of the sky...

Jeez. I couldn't have said that any better!! Give this man a beer!

 

[PCL_128]

To bring ALL flying displaying mainline colors under ONE list, ONE pilot group, ONE contract. Eliminate outsourcing all together.

Great idea. Now how do you propose we accomplish that?

P.S. The RJDC will only make matters worse if they are successful with their silly little lawsuit. Imagine Skywest flying Delta 767s for 50-seat rates.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

The RJDC will only make matters worse if they are successful with their silly little lawsuit. Imagine Skywest flying Delta 767s for 50-seat rates.

The suit doesn't stand a chance right? So why even talk about it. I wonder why you spent three pages discussing a none issue.

Great idea. Now how do you propose we accomplish that?

Maybe if ALPA starts unifying all MEC's of each brand as a cohesive unit? I'm a Dumb Pilot, but that sounds like a start to me, maybe you ALPA Jar heads should look for the definition of "Union" in the dictionary.

Again both ALPA and the RJDC suck. Thank you!

 

[PCL_128]

The suit doesn't stand a chance right? So why even talk about it. I wonder why you spent three pages discussing a none issue.

I continue to discuss the "non-issue" because guys like John Breiling and Dan Ford are misleading a bunch of new regional pilots and turning them against the Association before their career even gets off the ground. I'm going to do whatever I can to stop these RJDC guys from turning our new members against us.

Maybe if ALPA starts unifying all MEC's of each brand as a cohesive unit? I'm a Dumb Pilot, but that sounds like a start to me, maybe you ALPA Jar heads should look for the definition of "Union" in the dictionary.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking for here. Are you wanting to get a single MEC for each brand? Do you just want more communication between MECs? What exactly do you want to see?

By the way, are you planning on walking the picket line with us tomorrow? I hope to see you there.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I continue to discuss the "non-issue" because guys like John Breiling and Dan Ford are misleading a bunch of new regional pilots and turning them against the Association before their career even gets off the ground. I'm going to do whatever I can to stop these RJDC guys from turning our new members against us.

How about turning the uninformed "older" members too.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking for here. Are you wanting to get a single MEC for each brand? Do you just want more communication between MECs? What exactly do you want to see?

By the way, are you planning on walking the picket line with us tomorrow? I hope to see you there.

How about the members taking some leadership of thier own. Instead of acting like they are powerless.....

 

[PCL_128]

How about the members taking some leadership of thier own. Instead of acting like they are powerless.....

Hence the picket line question.

 

[~~~^~~~]

But NO talk whatsoever about what should be the topic of conversation. To bring ALL flying displaying mainline colors under ONE list, ONE pilot group, ONE contract. Eliminate outsourcing all together.

Dumb Pilot: You are not so dumb. In fact, the RJDC litigation was born out of the 2000 ALPA Board of Directors meeting where the ASA and Comair MEC's brought forward a request under ALPA's Merger and Fragmentation policy to merge (staple - whatever according to ALPA protocols) the Comair, ASA and Delta list. The result would have been alll Delta flying performed by Delta pilots. We thought maybe the Delta pilots would be happy with all the flying, all the votes, perfect scope and the power within ALPA that a 11,000 to 13,000 pilot seniority list would have.

Instead the Delta pilots' MEC launched a Jihad against connection pilots with smears that you hear repeated in General Lee and other's posts even today. Bottom line was that the Delta MEC Chair thought Connection pilots were not worthy of a staple and he professed his allegience to his former military squadron mates who he thought would not want to start their careers in a lowly RJ.

Common MEC's don't mean much if there is only a token small jet guy on a 9 member MEC. A single list is the way to fix the problem. Pan Am and Ransome show that it can be done, if the union politicians decide that trade unionism is important to them.

 

[PCL_128]

Dumb Pilot: You are not so dumb. In fact, the RJDC litigation was born out of the 2000 ALPA Board of Directors meeting where the ASA and Comair MEC's brought forward a request under ALPA's Merger and Fragmentation policy to merge (staple - whatever according to ALPA protocols) the Comair, ASA and Delta list. The result would have been alll Delta flying performed by Delta pilots. We thought maybe the Delta pilots would be happy with all the flying, all the votes, perfect scope and the power within ALPA that a 11,000 to 13,000 pilot seniority list would have.

Instead the Delta pilots' MEC launched a Jihad against connection pilots with smears that you hear repeated in General Lee and other's posts even today. Bottom line was that the Delta MEC Chair thought Connection pilots were not worthy of a staple and he professed his allegience to his former military squadron mates who he thought would not want to start their careers in a lowly RJ.

ALPA merger policy didn't apply in this case. It's as simple as that. Besides, even if the policy did apply, and the PID went forward, you can't force management to merge a seniority list. It was a hopeless endeavor intended to do nothing but stir up trouble and prove a point.

Common MEC's don't mean much if there is only a token small jet guy on a 9 member MEC. A single list is the way to fix the problem. Pan Am and Ransome show that it can be done, if the union politicians decide that trade unionism is important to them.

On this, we agree. Of course, you still have to find a way to accomplish a single seniority list for each brand. Espousing it as a good idea isn't enough. You need to come up with ways to achieve that goal.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I continue to discuss the "non-issue" because guys like John Breiling and Dan Ford are misleading a bunch of new regional pilots and turning them against the Association before their career even gets off the ground. I'm going to do whatever I can to stop these RJDC guys from turning our new members against us.

ALPA's own behavior is what turns new memebrs against ALPA. Specifically the fact that ALPA tends to attack its new members, trading their wages and working conditions for "bargaining credits" used for the more senior members.

ALPA's representational crisis is not going to be repaired without folks like John Brieling and Dan Ford taking a stand to fix our union. ALPA has had more than T E N long years to address their irrational scope policies. How long are we supposed to wait for ALPA's leadership to fix the union's representational problems from the inside? Really, how much longer, can you give me a date?

ALPA must be fixed. Just like the battles other minorities had to fight for equal representation, it appears this battle will have to be won at the Courthouse to effect change.

You and I disagree on the point, but I see Dan Ford as one the bravest and most hard working ALPA supporters I've ever met.

~~~^~~~