Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

RJDC on new DAL scope deal

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

~~~^~~~

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Posts
6,137
Reprint from RJDC's Web Site
______________________________

Scope Bulletin

December 2, 2002


ALPA Boasts that it Re-Imposed Limits on Delta Connection

On Friday, November 18, 2002, the Delta pilot leadership announced to its pilots that it had reached a new scope agreement with Delta management. In exchange for its approval of the domestic alliance with Northwest and Continental Airlines, the Delta pilot leadership proudly claimed that it had successfully re-imposed limits upon Delta Connection. The relevant portions of the "new" scope are as follows:

57 CRJ-700's, despite pre-existing options for 165 more.
All Delta Connection flying limited to approximately 45% of total system flying in 2004, with changes linked to corporate financial performance.
Penalty provisions that could force a reduction in Delta Connection flying if ratios are exceeded.
Stage-length, hub, and route restrictions.
Agreement null & void if government blocks approval of DAL-NWA-CAL domestic alliance.
Note: To put the new ratio numbers in context, if only the minimum mainline block-hours are achieved, DCI is "permitted" an additional 90 to 130 aircraft. However, ASA and Comair alone have orders and options totaling 458 aircraft.

Notwithstanding ALPA’s two-year high profile effort to "study" the scope problem, the new agreement should put to rest any hope that the union’s leadership is prepared to voluntarily purge itself of the inherent conflict of interest created by its support, coordination, and funding of mainline predatory bargaining. If left to its own devices, ALPA will apparently continue to ignore its lawful duties to its "Express" members and permit the mainline interests to engage in predatory bargaining and to use their ill-gotten scope restrictions as bargaining capital to secure other contractual objectives.

Is the Agreement only a StopGap Measure?

In a letter to its members, the Delta pilot leadership wrote that the re-establishment of the restrictions would benefit future negotiations. Such statements would seem to imply that the Delta pilot leadership feels that this is only the first of several rounds of mainline bargaining that may take place as the upheaval in the airline industry continues. A close examination of what the new agreement doesn’t address would appear to support the notion that the Delta pilot leadership will soon find themselves back at the bargaining table.

The Scope’s Fundamental Flaws
Artificial restrictions upon the RJ will not preserve mainline jobs nor promote mainline growth. The tragic events of 9/11 merely accentuated the fundamental flaws in the old scope and accelerated the inevitable. Since the mechanics of the "new" scope are virtually identical to the "old," there is no reason to believe that it will fare any better than its predecessor.

The 57 CRJ-700 Limit
With 165 CRJ-700 options still on the books, it is only logical to believe that Delta will protect its competitive RJ advantage and fill the 70 to 100 passenger "seat gap" in its fleet. Based upon Delta’s published fleet plan, the 57 CRJ-700’s "permitted" by the current scope only amounts to 25% of what the company apparently feels it needs.

The Mainline Cost Structure
The new scope agreement does little to address the mainline cost structure. With the pilots at Delta’s mainline competitors agreeing to give up 15 to 20% of their pay and benefits, Delta may presumably seek to do likewise. If the company seeks further cost reductions from its mainline pilots, scope will undoubtedly be part of the bargaining equation.


Delta MEC Says New Agreement Does Not Substantially Affect the Career Security of the Delta Pilots

In a weak attempt to justify its decision not to permit the rank and file to vote on the new agreement, the Delta pilot leadership claimed that no vote was required because the new agreement did not fit the MEC’s policy requiring a vote of the pilots on any agreement that substantially affects their pay, working conditions, retirement or career security.

Taken at face value, the Delta MEC’s statement is nothing short of an admission that the numerical and operational restrictions imposed upon ASA and Comair are in reality political and collective bargaining tools-and as such, have little to do with mainline job security. At the very least, the Delta MEC’s apparent flip-flop testifies to what extent ALPA’s leadership will go to protect its ability to wheel and deal with management using small jet restrictions as bargaining capital.

Will the New Agreement Add to ALPA’s Legal Woes?

While some may wish to believe the new agreement will help ALPA extricate itself from its legal predicament, the negotiation and content of the agreement may have the opposite effect for several reasons.

The content of the "new" agreement and the manner in which it was negotiated is apparently identical to the last round of predatory bargaining which spawned the litigation. By again ignoring its duty to the ASA and Comair pilots and "restoring" the harmful scope restrictions, ALPA can no longer claim that its disputed actions were the result of inadvertent oversights or omissions.
In both written and verbal arguments to the court, ALPA argued that the force majeure exemption rendered the scope ratios unenforceable thereby making any legal claims moot. However, ALPA’s apparent decision to withhold the fact that it was actively re-negotiating those very same provisions raises serious questions as to the sincerity of its arguments to the court.
As a consequence of ALPA’s uncertainty as to whether there would ever be reset negotiations, the Court issued instructions to ALPA to keep plaintiffs apprised of the status of any reset negotiations. The fact that ALPA planned, conducted, and concluded scope reset negotiations without providing any notice to the plaintiffs raises serious questions regarding ALPA’s compliance with the Court’s instructions.
When after the Delta MEC announced that it had entered into scope negotiations with Delta management, five Comair pilots filed contractual grievances questioning whether the negotiation, or re-negotiation, of certain scope provisions would violate the Comair working agreement. In response to repeated requests, ALPA claimed it did not have any evidence that would support the grievance. The revelation, after the fact, that it was in scope reset negotiations at the same time it denied having any pertinent information would appear to indicate that the union’s responses to the grievance was inaccurate and in bad faith.
Conclusion

ALPA’s decision to repair the Delta scope by merely "re-establishing" its harmful provisions is yet another clear indication that the union’s conduct is indeed arbitrary, discriminatory, and in bad faith. Notwithstanding the obvious conflict of interest, ALPA is intent upon supporting, coordinating, and funding the efforts of its mainline members to use scope as a remote control device to unilaterally impose any restrictions upon the union’s other members.

Not only are such actions an egregious violation of the union’s duty to the ASA and Comair pilots, but as the last year has shown, the political follies of the union leadership has proved harmful to all of ALPA’s members. While litigation is the least desirable of remedies, ALPA’s support of the Delta MEC’s predatory agenda proves that we have no other recourse at this time. However, we stand willing and prepared to engage in more constructive approach whenever ALPA can demonstrate that it is willing to resolve the current dispute and represent all its members at Delta fairly and equally.
 
~~~^~~~

All you guys who love scope clauses had better hope the RJDC doesn't win it's case...cause if it does, I would bet there will be some big changes at mainline carriers that will not necessarily be in favor of those pilot groups when it comes time for contract negotations.

Despite all the "propaganda" from ALPA lately about how small and large jets are "not in competition," that they really working for the benefit of both groups...this Delta scope reset is just proof that "propaganda" was the not the appropriate term...rather

disinformation: Incorrect and deliberately misleading information.

I'd rather ALPA national just come out and say, "hey, we primarily represent the big boys...that's our bread and butter...we'll do what we can for you small jet guys, but when push comes to shove, you're gonna take a back seat."

Better to deal with people you can't stand but who tell the truth, rather than those who tell you their your friend, and then intentionally lie to your face.
 
Do you guys ever rest????? With 1,015 pilots on furlough and DCI hiring like mad (ASA is hiring 80 a month) give it a break, or come here and join me on furlough!!!! DALPA is NOT restricting your jobs for mainline, or I would be working.
 
goldentrout said:
~~~^~~~
disinformation: Incorrect and deliberately misleading information.

Yep.."propeganda"........RJDC style.


goldentrout said:
~~~^~~~
Better to deal with people you can't stand but who tell the truth, rather than those who tell you their your friend, and then intentionally lie to your face.

Or tell you what you want to hear, because you'll apparently believe anything as long as it jives with your personal perception of the "truth".
 
TBKANE

My perception of the truth?

The truth is that I've been getting all kinds of newsletters from ALPA telling me about "new scope" clauses that protect all pilots within a "brand." They specifically state that "we are not in competition."

Then yesterday, we find out that the Delta MEC has pretty much reinstated the old scope clauses, which limit how many RJs Comair/ASA can fly, and limit the amount of flying we can do.

Please expain to me how I am not correctly perceiving the truth.

ALPA tells me that they are working for the best interest of all the pilots, pushing for "brand" scope that protects all pilots within a company.

After receiving all that disinformation, I find out the Delta MEC has gone back to old scope...which limits the # of jets and the amount of flying my pilot list can do?

Seems to me my "perception" is reality.
 
You guys just won't give it a rest, will you? There's over a thousand DAL pilots on the street and you're still going to get 135 planes under the new scope, yet you continue to whine. You won't be happy until you've robbed every DAL pilots of their job.
 
If I were a fellow regional pilot, I'd be furious at you guys (RJDC). You seem to ignore the big picture.....the overwhelming majority of regional pilots would like to move on to bigger and better equipment and pay.

ALPA is trying to safegaurd the jobs most of you would like to go to. I assume you've heard this before and think you'd like to stay at the glorious regionals forever. Well, most of your compatriots don't.

If you give management the runaway tool to transfer jet flying to much lower paid labor, of course they will take it. Over enough time they will be corrected by the market back to more standard gauge aircraft....the suppliers (airlines) are figuring out how to deliver them at seat prices competitive with RJ's....and as they do the explosive growth of RJ's will stop dramatically. Incidentally, RJ's are only a benefit in terms of lowering the costs of added frequency. It is still far less expensive (per seat) to move a larger aircraft, and major network airlines are figuring out that they can't afford the current route frequencies anyway.

BUT MEANWHILE they will happily steamroller right over all the jobs you guys (or your friends) would like to go to. Hope you like your cramped cockpit, minimal jetway access, and cramped cabins...because you're ensuring that you will get stuck in them for a long long time.

BTW I agree that market economics will dictate a repositioning of the pay scales on large equipment, but that will find a floor well above RJ scale. Today's RJ pay scales will make less long term sense when advancement opportunity to a major isn't part of the compensation.

Good luck to all......
 
Jesse,

Your use of half truths and illogical thinking in this update almost commical, even for you. While you may have some sort of following among others in your distorted world(what color is the sky there?) I don't think anyone including most pilots at the two airlines you represent(without their permission or your election) believe or listen to your dribble.

Super
 
George Zip is right on. The RJDC is comprised of Comair/ASA lifers who are intent on making the best of their limited careers at the regional level. The reason they don' have more supprt from their fellow regional/express pilots is because the majority of these pilots WANT TO WORK FOR MAINLINE!!!. The less mainline jobs, the worse it is for the majority of regional pilots.

There is nothing wrong with fighting for better working conditions where you work. It is definitely strike-worthy and we are stuck where we are for a long time. There IS something wrong with trying to diminish your fellow pilots' chances of realize their true career aspirations.
 
Lawyers fund

The RJDC is nothing but a few senior pilots pissing away their retirement to a bunch of lawyers. I am so sick of seeing unhappy pilots burning up my dues money so their lawyers can get paid.
Why can't they use the grievance process and their MEC the way the rest of us do? Why don't they see that their efforts are counterproductive?

RJ pilots now make up a significant portion of the ALPA membership and dues contributors. Yes there are pilots that never want to leave flying smaller aircraft, more power to them. Yes scope at mainline carriers is hurting expansion at the respective regionals. ALPA has finally seen the light and is addressing this issue. The RJDC guys would have the support of all regional pilots if they were using/participating in ALPA to further our careers/pay/QOL/retirement.

There are several ALPA represented RJ carriers in contract negotiations right now. If we all stick to our guns and hold out for real airline compensation since we are real airline pilots, we will secure our future and become and even stronger voice at ALPA.
 

Latest posts

Latest resources

Back
Top