RJDC on new DAL scope deal

[NYRANGERS]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Lawyers fund

Why don't you ask one of your Captains that hired in with Northeast, Western, Ransome, or Pan Am? The answer is the same... Or stop by the Delta Heritage museum and look at the F27 in DAL colors, or the display on the "merger" of ASA.

Clearly those pilots who came before us understand. It is you who cling to bigotry while your fellow pilots are being furloughed.

So let me get this straight. You are equating the Pan Am merger with ASA buyout...??

And how the hell did you tie bigotry into this thread?

PS. I have talked to a few Western and Pan Am captains that I have flown with. And they think you rjdc guys are full of **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**. Why don't you ask some of them yourself. It would seem (in YOUR opinion) that these pilots would be a great help to your lost cause.

 

[mckpickle]

If you ask me the RJDC is kind of silly. I understand what they are doing, but it doesnt make sense to limit your own company. I mean you guys are owned by Delta right? Seems your effort would be better spent trying to secure a flow through, which in these economic times wouldnt be too hard. Or if you really wasnt to pi$$ in the wind try to convince a judge that since you were bought by Delta that you should be intergrated into the senority list. That should be a hoot.

But I bet you have a better chance at any of the above that what your trying to do. JMHO

 

[NYRANGERS]

Or if you really wasnt to pi$$ in the wind try to convince a judge that since you were bought by Delta that you should be intergrated into the senority list. That should be a hoot.

But I bet you have a better chance at any of the above that what your trying to do. JMHO

IMHO that would be the fastest way for them to be sold off. It would generate some much needed capital, and might put to rest the rjdc clowns.

take care

 

[9rj9]

I hope they do sell us

Then the gloves would really be off, and we would take all of your flying.

 

[super ed]

Jesse,

I was a Ransome pilot and you are wrong.

Super

 

[NYRANGERS]

Re: I hope they do sell us

Then the gloves would really be off, and we would take all of your flying.

How would it be any different from now? Unless you plan on competing with Delta.

 

[601Pilot]

Re: I hope they do sell us

Then the gloves would really be off, and we would take all of your flying.

What? You must be kidding?? If they did sell us (ASA), they
would definitely cancel our contract for Delta flying and we
would lose all of our future options for CRJs since we would
no longer be part of DCI. I don't think we have the capital to
start our own marketing and ticketing campaign to sell ASA
tickets. Most people that fly on us don't even know who ASA
is, they just think we are Delta.

Just my $.02!

601Pilot

PS Someone please tell my "smiley" to stop drinking all my
da$mn beer!

 

[Freight Dog]

Re: Re: Lawyers fund

The issue is not scope. It is representation. The reason why we do not use the grievance process is because ALPA, illegally, refuses to allow the grievances to go forward. Duane Woerth has directed our grievances to the Bilateral Scope Impact Committee, which can not do anything. The RJDC did address the BSIC before the law suit and again, ALPA refused to do anything to address our concerns. (The RJDC will be glad to send you copies of the letters denying our rights to the grievance process)

Your flying is done under DL code, correct? That is Delta code. I believe that COMBINED, Comair and ASA groups are outnumbered by Delta ALPA. Where is the problem? Even if you had "representation" and your MEC was present at DALPA negotiations, AND the vote went to THE ENTIRE Comair and ASA memberships <which I don't think it should have anyway>, you STILL would have lost due to sheer numbers. Secondly, Delta has 1000+ pilots furloughed. Comair and ASA are STILL hiring in mass numbers. What's the bellyaching about?!



The issue is not "regional lifers." I'm in my early 30's with a Master's and turbine PIC time, not a "lifer" by the typical definition. However, any idiot with a sense of history can see that allowing management to run alter ego airline operations destroys collective bargaining rights. Read ALPA's own publications, Flying the Line I & II and tell me that the RJDC and ALPA's founders are not like minded.

What I gather from this is that you are upset over the lack of scope at your airline. How many carriers fly under DL code aside from CMR and ASA? Personally, I think ASA and Comair should own ALL of DCI flying and dump the contract carriers. However, that's the lack of scope on your end. Everyone puts priorities elsewhere, but if it is THAT important to you, perhaps it's worth striking over.



Repeatedly the RJDC's prognostications have been verified by no less than the Delta MEC when the truth could no longer be hidden. It is not "disinformation" because the news arrives six months before ALPA reluctantly confirms the truth.

ALPA was again given the opportunity to fix the problem and again went down the path of illegally denying Regional pilots the right to negotiate their pay and working conditions with their employer.

If your reference is Delta.... Numbers my friend. Numbers. You lose.


I'm an outsider, but man, you go to ALPA's message boards and all you see is RJDC being hashed and rehashed. Come here, and watch the same thing. It is a rather interesting reading, however, having read all sorts of posts, my conclusion is that RJDC is NOTHING but an attempt to steal seniority numbers at Delta by a SMALL group of CMR/ASA pilots. This whole B.S. about "fair representation" is nothing but coffee-house crap.

 

[VFR on Top]

Somebody riddle me this: with so many of their bretheren on furlough, why isn't DALPA pushing for the CRJ-700s and -900s to be flown by mainline instead of DCI? More planes require more crews.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Somebody riddle me this: with so many of their bretheren on furlough, why isn't DALPA pushing for the CRJ-700s and -900s to be flown by mainline instead of DCI? More planes require more crews.

It seems with all the BS and malice going on between Delta and the Connection carriers, that this is what we are heading for.

 

[goldentrout]

VFR on Top

Very insightful for a guy with 100 hours flying a Cessna 172.

RJs, big and small, is and will revolutionize the industry over the next 5 to 10 years.

All the machinations that ALPA does to try and "preserve the profession" fly in the face of market realities.

US Air...bankrupt...UAL...going bankrupt...DAL/NWA...losing billions a year.

Comair/ASA/ACA...profitable and hiring

Jet Blue/SWA/AirTran...making money and hiring

It continually amazes me how people on this message board cannot see this blatantly obvious, undeniable shift in the airline market.

If 727/757/737/767/L10-11s, etc. made money, everyone would be flying them!

Instead, they are buying RJs, B717s, delaying/cancelling orders for those above mentioned, and parking/selling many of the same.

The airline industry will never be the same! All this talk about "preserving" these high paying jobs denys the fact that the airlines can no longer afford to pay this exorbitant overhead and compete with AirTran/Frontier/JetBlue/SWA.

AirTran will get you from ATL to Orlando just as quickly and safely as DAL, for less, and at less overhead cost to the company.

I have a friend who wants to go from DEN to Florida over Christmas. One would think UAL would be the obvious choice...wrong! Jet Blue will do it for 20% less than UAL, and it's a direct flight...and he bought a Jet Blue ticket.

I can go to SWA's website today and buy a totally refundable, totally changeable ticket to any SWA destination for $299...some places less than that...with one day's notice. Try that same deal on the UAL/DAL/NWA/US Air website. Impossible!

RJs...50...70...90...and maybe even over 100 seats (is it still an RJ) are coming. ALPA would do better to get these planes at mainline and get their guys off furlough.

TBKANE...what would you rather do?

1. Get back to flying a 50 or 70 or 90 seat RJ now at DAL mainline, pay some bills, which still gives you the potential for "big bucks" later.

2. Sit on furlough for 2...3...5 years to "preserve the profession" for ALPA.

I feel for all you guys on furlough, as I was furloughed myself after 9/11...it sucks, plain and simple.

As for "robbing jobs." DAL management has the responsibility for decideing which DAL owned plane will fly a specific route for maximum profitability.

If that means that DAL makes more money flying 2 70 seat RJs a day from CVG to Bangor rather than 1 737, that's what's best for the company...that's what makes the most money...that's what best for the shareholders...and that's what best for all of our job security...to have a strong, profitable company.

If the DALPA MEC was a little more visionary than "scope," TBKANE might be sitting in the left or right seat of that 70 seat RJ flying to Bangor tonight. Instead, DAL has 1000 guys on the street to "preserve the profession," instead of having them in the left and right seat of that 70 RJ where they would be flying, paying their bills, and watching their seniority list grow and instead of shrink every month.

TBKane and all you mainline guys...you are all well educated, smart, intelligent, achieving people.

Why do you still cling to the ALPA strategy that has helped (I said helped now, not TOTALLY responsible for) put 2 major airlines into bankruptcy, and put thousands of you on the street, with no prospect for recall anytime in the forseeable future?

I just don't get it?????????????????

It really is this simple.

1. Every DAL flight is flown by DAL pilot.

2. All pilots flying a DAL aircraft are on one list by date of hire.

3. Everyone goes up/down/out the bottom by date of hire (which means the 600 hundred or so guys hired by ASA/Comair since 9/11 and the 600 or so more to be hired next year wouldn't be hired...all the DAL furloughees would have jobs).

4. We get paid a benefit package that allows the company to weather bad times...and we get profit sharing in the good times (gee sounds like SWA...the ones hiring and making money).

Folks, it really is just this simple, isn't it?

 

[NYRANGERS]

goldentrout

Again we find someone who thinks taking pay concessions is the only way to fix an airline. You my friend are a 'simple person".

 

[FlyingSig]

It really is this simple.

.....

2. All pilots flying a DAL aircraft are on one list by date of hire.

Not really that simple. I made the choice to leave my left seat gig to start over at DAL. This happens and folks who chose not to take the gamble (yup, I'm furloughed, they're not...it's a gamble) suddenly jump me in senority and take my $105/hr seat and I get a new $32/hr seat.

Really, I've said it before on the board, I'd love to see a staple happen (it won't, not because of DALPA, but because Leo and Fred won't have their portfolio anymore) but if you didn't have the courage to leave before, what gives you the right to demand senority (and if your at CMR, esp, now that your MEC is giving me the finger by saying sorry, we don't care about you and your family being out of work, we just want to make a political statement because we can)

It's one or the other. You can either be your own company, or not. Too many statements on this board only make us the same when you guys want something, but seperate companies when it - heaven forbid - benifits a mainline pilot.

I'd say the Comair MEC made the decision for it's pilots this week.

 

[MetroSheriff]

but if you didn't have the courage to leave before, what gives you the right to demand senority (and if your at CMR, esp, now that your MEC is giving me the finger by saying sorry, we don't care about you and your family being out of work, we just want to make a political statement because we can)

Geez Sig,

Don't you get it? Because it would be the right thing to do in the name of union brotherhood. I know that is the truth. I read it on the RJDC website.

TIC

 

[Tim47SIP]

Huhh?

I am thinking that Goldentrout did not mean a total DOH between DCI and DALPA. If he did, he is delerious. At least at ASA, that is not the thinking (at least for the most part). Staple is really the only option and understood by the majority. For the furloughees, I fully support DOH integration, but no bumping. I truely hope this stuff gets fixed as the industy is changing and recalls will not be for some time. I still do not understand how someone can say that they will stay furloughed for several years (to save the profession) than accept reduced compensation (as a whole) to keep all of the pilots on the property. 5 years of 100K (just an example) versus 5 years of 40K to come back to 100K makes no sense when you can have 5 years of 80K the whole time.
Someone plese enlighten me! Thanks!