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RJDC Litigation Update

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JoeMerchant

ASA pilot
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
6,353
LITIGATION UPDATE
January 20, 2006

ALPA Asks Plaintiffs to Withdraw Lawsuits
At a routine December administrative meeting, ALPA asked that plaintiffs withdraw (not settle) their litigations, and in the alternative, that the Court suspend the ASA & Comair litigations for up to twelve months. Among ALPA's attempts at justification for that position was that it was "too busy" to respond to the legal action.
Plaintiff’s counsel responded that ALPA's recent actions at Delta only affirm the need for legal action. As for ALPA's request that the Court suspend the litigation, the Court declined and instead ordered that the depositions be completed by the end of February. By its actions, ALPA again shows the litigation has merit. Presumably the union wouldn't seek the premature termination of the litigation if in fact its actions were proper.
Our message to ALPA is simple. If the union desires an end to the litigation, then it must demonstrate a willingness to reform its conduct. But as long as ALPA remains unwilling to enact reforms, then we will continue to aggressively prosecute the litigations until a just resolution is obtained.
Related Link: http://www.rjdefense.com/2006/ford2woerth120805.pdf
ALPA Fails to Comply with Court's Scheduling Order
On December 1st, the Court ordered that the depositions be completed no later than February 28th. However, notwithstanding the fact that a full two-thirds of the allotted time has elapsed, ALPA has yet to produce a single deponent (witness.) At this point, ALPA has failed to produce witnesses for eight depositions that were properly noticed by the plaintiffs.
As with ALPA's aforementioned request for a suspension or withdrawal of the suits, its inability to comply with the Court's scheduling order suggests that it is very concerned with what may be revealed in the upcoming depositions.

As a result of ALPA's recalcitrance, plaintiffs have been forced to notify the Court of the status (or non-status) of depositions. We anticipate that ALPA will soon be summoned by the Court to explain its non-compliance.

Related Links: http://www.rjdefense.com/2006/counsel2court_011106.pdf http://www.rjdefense.com/2006/docket_011106.pdf


ALPA Still Owes Thousands of Documents
Concurrent with the issue of ALPA's inability to produce its officials for depositions, formal notice has been served upon ALPA regarding the incompleteness of its document production. Specifically, the plaintiffs have contended that ALPA has apparently withheld or failed to produce entire broad categories of documents relevant to proving its conduct.

A small sampling of the missing important items includes:

  • The full text of ALPA's proposals to Delta management.
  • The full text of ALPA's instructions to its negotiators.
  • The full record of ALPA's similar attempts to restrict the small jet at USAirways and Northwest.
Related Link: http://www.rjdefense.com/2006/deficiencies_11-15-06.pdf
What's in a Document and What Have We Found?
What's in a document? A lot. Legal cases have literally been won and lost simply because of a hand-written note scribbled in a margin or another seemingly innocuous fact found buried in the proverbial "haystack." The legal standard for what we may request from ALPA is quite broad. Parties may request any document that reasonably may contain relevant information, or lead to relevant information.
Unfortunately, legal issues restrict our ability to disclose much of what we have learned. First, many of the documents are covered by a court-sanctioned confidentiality agreement. Second, publicly revealing what we've found puts the plaintiffs at a decided disadvantage. We would not want our interest in keeping the pilot group well informed (which remains an important concern) to undermine the plaintiffs’ strategic efforts, such as to put us in a position in which we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
However, with Counsel's consent, here's what we can say:
  • After reviewing thousands of pages of documentation, plaintiffs and counsel continue to have the utmost confidence in this lawsuit.
  • Nothing in ALPA's document production undermines the plaintiffs’ confidence in the core claims that ALPA has promulgated a gross conflict of interest and has systematically and willfully violated its duties to the ASA and Comair pilots.
Other data points include references to "mainline" 70-seat rates, threats made against the Comair pilots, and of course, frequent attacks levied against the RJDC and its leaders.
Related Link: http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/discovery_list_by_subject.pdf
Legal Note: Delta Filed Bankruptcy, Not ALPA
Since the filing of the Delta bankruptcy, many have inquired whether or not Delta's filing will affect the ongoing litigation against ALPA. In a nutshell, the answer is that while any corporate event of that magnitude is material, it's not dispositive (having the potential for determining the outcome of the case.)
The key point is that it's Delta, not ALPA, who has filed for bankruptcy. Even then, bankruptcy filings do not terminate legal proceedings. More importantly, as ALPA has been warned, history shows that it's during times of "crisis" that a union is more likely to violate its duty to its members. Therefore during the wave of airline bankruptcies, ALPA must exercise more oversight, not less.
Related Link: http://www.deltadocket.com/
 
cl65capt said:
Who cares?

Actually cl65capt, lots of people care about this issue on both sides of the issue. I understand that you may not care about this issue, but then I have to ask why you bothered reading this thread, and responding to it, if you don't care about it?
 
JoeMerchant said:
Actually cl65capt, lots of people care about this issue on both sides of the issue. I understand that you may not care about this issue, but then I have to ask why you bothered reading this thread, and responding to it, if you don't care about it?

I have to ask why you feel it necessary to post it here. Those that are interested in it know what the RJDC web site is, and will go there unaided to receive the updates. Posting it here just pi$$es people off.
 
Joe,

Thanks for the update, I care.

701EV
 
JoeMerchant said:
Actually cl65capt, lots of people care about this issue on both sides of the issue. I understand that you may not care about this issue, but then I have to ask why you bothered reading this thread, and responding to it, if you don't care about it?




Posting it here and on the alpa website at the same time makes it really obvious as to who you are.
 
jehtplane said:
Posting it here and on the alpa website at the same time makes it really obvious as to who you are.

For those of you that are wondering, Dan Ford posted this on the ALPA boards at about the same time as Joe Merchant did here. Same guy? Can't know for sure, but seems likely. What say you, Joe? Or should I say Dan?
 
Decisions are made by those who show up.

It's the oldest rule of politics. The pilots at Delta showed up, they got involved and they made the decisions. You were off ... what? Playing Xbox or fishing when you got screwed? If you get anything out of this lawsuit it will be like mom yelling at the kids to play nice. Nice to see you can't defend yourself and have to call mommy.
 
PCL_128 said:
For those of you that are wondering, Dan Ford posted this on the ALPA boards at about the same time as Joe Merchant did here. Same guy? Can't know for sure, but seems likely. What say you, Joe? Or should I say Dan?

I'm pretty sure he meant the ASA ALPA boards.

It's easy to figure out who he is... this isn't the first time he's posted the same thing almost verbatim on both places.
 
sweptback said:
I'm pretty sure he meant the ASA ALPA boards.

It's easy to figure out who he is... this isn't the first time he's posted the same thing almost verbatim on both places.

Perhaps a PM? I'm kind of curious. It isn't Underwood is it? I haven't seen him on the national boards for quite a while.
 
PCL_128 said:
For those of you that are wondering, Dan Ford posted this on the ALPA boards at about the same time as Joe Merchant did here. Same guy? Can't know for sure, but seems likely. What say you, Joe? Or should I say Dan?

I think it's the other RJDC guy, not Dan.
 
atrdriver said:
I have to ask why you feel it necessary to post it here. Those that are interested in it know what the RJDC web site is, and will go there unaided to receive the updates. Posting it here just pi$$es people off.

And why not? If you are not "interested" it's as easy as pie for you to not read it and even easier if you don't reply.

Should it succeed we'll see how ready you are to reject the benefits that it may provide.
 
PCL_128 said:
Perhaps a PM? I'm kind of curious. It isn't Underwood is it? I haven't seen him on the national boards for quite a while.

Why are you curious? I thought you were among those that are not interested in what the RJDC has to say?
 
surplus1 said:
Should it succeed we'll see how ready you are to reject the benefits that it may provide.

There won't be any benefits. If it succeeds then the only result will be the complete destruction of all scope language and every one of our jobs will be outsourced to the lowest bidder. Some benefit.
 
PCL_128 said:
There won't be any benefits. If it succeeds then the only result will be the complete destruction of all scope language and every one of our jobs will be outsourced to the lowest bidder. Some benefit.

I can say two things in response. 1) A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. 2) Out of the mouths of babes.

You'd do yourself a greater favor if you confined your remarks to the perils of PFT.
 
surplus1 said:
Why are you curious? I thought you were among those that are not interested in what the RJDC has to say?

It would be nice to know if some of the RJDC "leadership" is active on this board. It never hurts to know the background of the people you are speaking with. And, for the record, I never said that I wasn't interested in what the RJDC has to say, I just vehemently disagree with it. I'll still listen, though. It usually provides a good laugh. ;)
 
surplus1 said:
I can say two things in response. 1) A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. 2) Out of the mouths of babes.

You'd do yourself a greater favor if you confined your remarks to the perils of PFT.

Trying to silence those that oppose you is a classic sign of a weak position. Nice try, though.
 
surplus1 said:
You'd do yourself a greater favor if you confined your remarks to the perils of PFT.

I find that remark kind of ironic, considering CMR pioneered PFT back in the early 90's
 
PCL_128 said:
Trying to silence those that oppose you is a classic sign of a weak position. Nice try, though.

I have no desire to silence you. The more you speak and the louder you speak the more we benefit.
 
Thedude said:
I find that remark kind of ironic, considering CMR pioneered PFT back in the early 90's

I'm sure you know more about who pioneered what than I do.
 
PCL_128 said:
There won't be any benefits. If it succeeds then the only result will be the complete destruction of all scope language and every one of our jobs will be outsourced to the lowest bidder. Some benefit.

HAHAHA...this from the PFT KING!
 
atrdriver said:
I have to ask why you feel it necessary to post it here. Those that are interested in it know what the RJDC web site is, and will go there unaided to receive the updates. Posting it here just pi$$es people off.

I have to ask why you care where I post it? Many people ask me at the airport what is going on with the lawsuit. I pass on information as I get it. If you don't want to read it, then simply skip over the RJDC threads - it's very simple. Many people aren't ed off when they read these updates. If some choose to get ed off about it, then they shouldn't read it.
 
PCL_128 said:
There won't be any benefits. If it succeeds then the only result will be the complete destruction of all scope language and every one of our jobs will be outsourced to the lowest bidder. Some benefit.


That has to be the most retarded quote yet PCL. Look around you Mr. Garrison, there are no BENEFITS left. Let me type slower on this one,,,,There is no SCOPE left. Every job is almost completely outsourced and by the end of 2007 or so its done. Finished. Senior Mainline pilots will sell off whats left to keep what little retirement they have. They have been doing it for 4 years now. There is no PAY and WORK rules anymore. You can and WILL make more at Burger King. Last time I checked BK had a 401K with a better match than what Comair now has. Don't believe me? Check for yourself. It can't get worse......If the RJDC succeeds you may be better off. Can you honestly say your better off now? This industry is a joke of a job and where is almighty ALPA in all this? All I hear is Crickets. Your quote," our jobs will be outsourced to the lowest bidder." Where the H#ll have you been? It already is with the help of ALL the mainline MECs to protect all but their juniour pilots in a slow sell off of capital and scope, and I have yet to hear one major speech by D.W. to stop it, any of it. You make less than Burger King and your afraid of the RJDC? You've got to be kidding me. If I were still flying in the airlines I'd be praying for something else. Anything else. And the RJDC seems to be the only thing left. ALPA is an embarrassment. But what do I know, keep supporting ALPA while you pay 2% and earn less than BK. Everyone, please re-read PCL's quote for a fantastic laugh. Even an Osterich pulls his head out of the sand for air once in awhile.
 
StaySeated said:
This lawsuit makes less sense every day.

Actually it is as important now as ever. There are CRJ 705 airframes headed to ASA that are being used by DALPA as bargaining chips. DALPA is trying to stop these aircraft from coming to ASA. It is ALPA continuing to embrace the same old failed policies that make less sense every day.
 
Legacy pilots, you're an idiot that has no clue what consequences your greed had. If you had any idea how expensive a GOOD contract is, you would have avoided it like the plague. You are what is wrong with this industry, you are why airlines have been crippled, you are why so many pilots are on furlough, because of GREED, because of a mistaken sense of pride, and because your sense of entitlement extends beyond your intent to bring yourself home safe every night. You are the downfall of this industry. NOT us!
 
PCL_128 said:
There won't be any benefits. If it succeeds then the only result will be the complete destruction of all scope language and every one of our jobs will be outsourced to the lowest bidder. Some benefit.

"Earth to PCL128, Earth to PCL128" Where have you been son? Maybe if you took off those ALPA sunglasses, and put down your cup of Herndon KoolAid you would notice that our jobs are ALREADY BEING OUTSOURCED TO THE LOWEST BIDDER. Of course as a product of the Gulfstream to Pinnacle "puppy mill", YOU are one of those "LOWEST BIDDERS"!
 
PCL_128 said:
It would be nice to know if some of the RJDC "leadership" is active on this board. It never hurts to know the background of the people you are speaking with. And, for the record, I never said that I wasn't interested in what the RJDC has to say, I just vehemently disagree with it. I'll still listen, though. It usually provides a good laugh. ;)

Your right about knowing the backgrounds of the people you are debating with. Maybe you could help us learn a little more about you. Here are some questions for you:

1. How many hours did you have when you were hired by Gulfstream?
2. How much did you pay Gulfstream for the privledge of flying for their great company?
3. How many hours did you have when you were hired at Pinnacle?
 

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