right seat of T-prop to left seat RJ?

[Forbidden Donut]

New guy to the board here, just looking for advice. I've been an FO at a strong regional for over two years on the e120. We also have RJs, but I haven't bid it yet because I want to upgrade. and don't want to start commuting yet (don't have to commute for e120). However e120 upgrade classes have been halted for now, but the RJ classes are still going strong. In short, I will probably been able to hold RJ capt as soon--if not sooner--than e120 cpt.
Hence my question--what is your opinion on going from e120 FO to RJ Cpt? I will have @ 6000TT and +2000 Pt 121 SIC in the e120 when/if it happens. I know its hard to make a judgement on someone you don't know, but I'm interested to hear if anyone has experience doing something like this, or know someone who has done it. All info welcome--good, bad & ugly. Thanks.

P.S. I do remember the Mesa ERJ incident in ROA

 

[tdvalve]

Shouldn't be a problem, IHMO. It happens all the time. Some of the Comair SF-340 pilots who went to the left seat of the RJ when it first came online might have some insight.

 

[eagleatr]

When I was an ATR FO, I flew with several captains who were new to the ATR. They did fine. Like everyone who is new to an airplane, they did not know some of the quirks of that specific aircraft. When you upgrade, a good FO will help you with any systems quirks, flow shortcuts, flying hints, etc. I wouldn't worry about it.

The best bet would be to go ahead and upgrade. I don't know who you work for, but if you want to move to a "major," then turbine PIC is what it's all about. Just look at SWA or JB.

EagleATR

 

[CRJ200FO]

There has been a very high failure rate here at Pinnacle from guys going from the SF-340 straight to the left seat of the RJ (about 40-60%). Most of the guys pass the checkride the second time, but several have been told they would have to go to the right seat first. It's probably a good idea for most guys without any jet time to do at least 6 months in the right seat before upgrading to captain. That's just my opinion though.

 

[skydiverdriver]

A very good question. I'm still an RJ FO, but I have flown with several captains that came directly from the Brazillia. Most of them were captains on the prop, and one even went to the trouble of being a jet FO for several months before upgrading. From what I've seen, I think it can be done either way. This actually happens a lot at larger airlines with more types, perhaps not from a prop, but upgrading to a type that you have never flown as a FO. The most difficulty I have seen with captains that never flew the right seat is in working the FMS. It's just a computer, but has a lot of variables and modes of operation, and you just have to learn it by working with it.

Again, I have never done this myself, but I think you can do it, but if you can be a jet fo first, that might make the transition a bit easier. Good luck to you.

 

[Forbidden Donut]

Wow--thanks for the quick responses everyone. And more input is definitely welcome.
Yeah, the one thing I really ponder about is my lack of jet time. I do have the chance to be a jet FO, but its a year seat-lock and the next class I could probably get is in two months. That would garantee a year of commuting for SIC, and I want to avoid that for family reasons. The upgrade (for either a/c) could be within a year--that also would mean commuting, but would be more worth it.
Thanks again for all your input. And beleive me, with a lot of qualified pilots on furlough, I realize I could have a lot worse decisions to make.

 

[Tri-holer]

Go for it, Dude!

I went from an Ercoupe to right seat in a 727 with just over 1100 hours. I got to watch the flights from the tip of the tail for awhile until I got up to speed with the plane but you won't have that problem.

I think you will find that with your experience level, you will have no problems. Don't sit in the right seat unless they make you.

Good luck.

 

[bobbysamd]

Upgrade

Good comment about the Roanoke incident.

I thought at first that you would be better off upgrading to FO in the jet so you could at least learn the systems and the airplane and have some time in it before going to the left seat. Then, going to Captain would be less difficult. However, you have good time and good turbine time, so you should be able to do it. Moreover, low-timers who were flight instructors have been hired into the right seat of the RJ and a good many of them have hacked it. The RJ captain's pay will be nice, too.

Don't forget, in the early years of jets those guys were upgrading from recips directly to 707s and DC-8s. They handled it.

The commuting issue is also worth keeping in the back of your mind. Good luck.

 

[JTrain]

Hey

I'm in a similar situation - pretty much 2yrs at a regional, currently a D328Jet FO. Because my co, ACA, has stopped receiving D328s due to Fairchild Dorniers financial problems, the upgrade in the CRJ will likely present itself a lot sooner than the upgrade in the D328J.

I'm fairly sure I'd be able to successfully transition from D328J FO to CRJ CA, but I'm also aware there's a certain element of risk to it. There's nothing like knowing the airplane you're flying. There's certain things you pick up on, ie FMS modes, FMS programming, Flt Director/AP nuances that are just second nature once you have time in the airplane, but are hard to properly learn in the sim world. Not having my ATP or being a CA, I want to make extra certain my first upgrade is a successful one. Remember, a pink slip is not going to be fun to explain if you ever get to interview somewhere else. Also, there's something to be said that if you take the first available upgrade to CRJ CA, you'll be among the most jr. CRJ CAs, on reserve, at the mercy of scheduling, etc... Commuting to reserve sucks. And when you're new to the airplane, you want to have the chance to really get comfortable flying the line, but on reserve you won't necessarily have the chance to fly a lot and get comfortable. So when your line check comes, or if you're put into a situation that's out of the ordinary, you may screw up something that if you'd had the chance to build your fundamentals online, you maybe wouldn've. If I can't hold a D328J CA spot by next spring, I've made up my mind to go CRJ FO.
PIC time won't get you anywhere for the next 3-4 years. Might as well enjoy the ride as a sr. FO; you'll have your choice of trips and it'll make your commute a bit easier.

JTrain

p.s. Forbidden Donut - Message me if you want - this is a very intriguing topic and I change my opinion almost daily on it. I can relate totally to your situation. I'm sure you'll do well, whatever choice you make. I just want to make sure for my own sake, that I'm as ready for the upgrade as I possibly can be. Keep that in mind also. JT

 

[Forbidden Donut]

I hear ya, brother. I bounce back and forth on what to do everyday. I know a lot of really junior e120 cpts who successfully transitioned to RJ capt and didn't have much more than time than I'll have in the e120--but part of their's was PIC time, too. Still, most had no time in the a/c at all before transitioning and faired okay.
But, like you, its less the training/checkride I worry about than doing a good and safe job as CA. There are things that seniority allow that aren't necessary smart. That said, thanks for the advice.

 

[BigFlyr]

Hey Tri-Holer, that's pretty impressive... Ercoupe to 727 FO with only 1100hrs... I had about 5200hrs and went from a C402 to a 727... and I thought I was holding on to the tail of a rocket for the first 30 hours or so eventhough I had a year in the thing flying sideways... Anyway, from there went to right seat of a CRJ and I'll tell you what, the RJ is a tougher airplane to fly and has a higher workload for the pilots without the FE in the back reading all the checklists! Better stay on the conservative side and get some time in an RJ before flying as a Captain... Then again, you must take every oportunity to upgrade!
Tough call, but guys are doing it all the time. It can be done if you put 100% into it but I would never say "no problem".

 

[Tim47SIP]

I dunno

I have personally watched many individuals fail the upgrade training and then put in the right seat for a while. Some have been forced back into the original position they came from. When most airlines have a two bust rule for the whole time you are with the company, I personally am going to go to the RJ for at least 4-5 months and then upgrade. My thinking is that coming from a very big, slow turbo prop to a very sofisticated piece of machinery, I would have learned some of the things that will bite you in the arse that the training department doesn't tell you. I will only be out of training for a few months and right back into it again as a left seater. I have just seen to many turboprop guys bust, many are Captains allready! Ya, I know it could imply something about our training departement, but personally I would not take the chance. Although I have just been recalled off of retirement back into the military, this was my original plan. When I come back in a few years, it will still be my plan, but even more justified as I will have to relearn all of the company rules, procedures, etc.. Anyway, good luck in what ever your outcome will be.

 

[rightrudder]

One question for you, does your EMB-120 have much glass or an FMS? I transitioned from the Dork prop to the CRJ and it was pretty simple, but I had previous all glass cockpit and FMS experience, so it was pretty much just some differences between the new equipment and old, and the jet. The only real difference in flying is you have to plan your descents/airspeed reductions a little more carefully, and approaches with the nose pointed at the ground take a little getting used to!

The checkairman who did my IOE said that people coming from the 328 prop seemed to do better than those coming from the 146 (jet) because of the glass experience. The speed/altitude tapes and all the info available to you takes some time to digest.

anyhow, just a little more food for thought.

RR

 

[CF34-3B1]

F.W.I.W,

I went from left seat of the EMB120 to left seat CRJ, never flew the RJ as an FO, had zero jet time before I started training. I had no problems getting through training, and found the CRJ to be a MUCH easier airplane to fly than the EMB120.

As a side note, when I was an EMB120 Capt, I flew with an FO who went EMB FO to CRJ Capt. He said he had no problems either, and is currently flying left seat in the CRJ.

As previous posters have stated, guys do it all the time, all it takes is a little hard work.

Personally, if I were you I'd go for RJ Capt, if for no other reason than you don't have to explain Secondary Low Pitch Stops and Beta valves in the type oral.

 

[Austpilot]

I agree with CRJ200FO - I have seen guys in Australia go from Saab340 to CRJ and find the going tough - I think one needs some time in the right seat of a jet before going to the left.- if only for the reason that sectors are short, workload can be high etc etc.

 

[Andy Neill]

Donut,

I presume we are at the same carrier. I know of exactly ONE who has gone from Brasilia FO to jet captain and she did quite well. I think it is a VERY risky move to make because of our up or out policy. Good luck, either way.

 

[SF3CAP]

Like EagleATR says, you'll have experienced FO's who will be more than willing to help you. I've flown ATR left and right seat, RJ right seat, and now the Saab as a Captain. Never flew right seat in it. FO's have been great helpin' me out. I always tell them to "watch me like a hawk" and they do. If they know you're open to suggestions, believe me, you'll get suggestions!!!

I say go for it. You'll do fine.

 

[Forbidden Donut]

Thanks to everyone who put in their two cents--I still have time to think it all over, or maybe they'll run some e120 upgrade classes and all my problems will be over (fingers crossed). Either way, it really helps to have input from everyone to help me think things over. Stay safe.