Ricci Ruse/Handschuch Hustle

[doh]

As we near the vote, watch for this oldie but goodie! Handschuch and/or Jason will tell a pilot something along these lines: "If the union is voted out, Kenn will immediately increase pilot pay to make you THE HIGHEST PAID PILOTS IN THE INDUSTRY. Kenn won't put it in writing, but pass that along to everyone you know. If they don't believe it, tell them to contact us and we'll confirm it".
How do I know it's going to happen? Because that is the ruse he used the first time Travel Air/Flight Options had a union vote. They voted no. Two years later, when they voted to join the union, they did so as the LOWEST paid pilots in the industry.
Do not fall for the Ricci Ruse/Hanschuch Hustle! If Kenn/Rick won't put it in writing, it will not happen! And aren't they demanding the union put seniority list integration in writing? Why should they be held to a lower standard than they demand of the IBT?

 

[Imissmypilot]

I was told this not too long ago by a old RTA guy: if ricci won't put it in writing, don't believe it. If he will put it in writing, have it acid tested for disappearing ink.

Truer words never spoken.

 

[el raton]

Highest paid? "Sure thing! We will form a committee to structure a bonus plan which will make Flexjet pilots the highest paid in the industry!"

 

[gunfyter]

Make sure you find out which industry

 

[doh]

Make sure you find out which industry

That's awesome! You're cracking me up!

 

[hank1292]

You do know that they (management) can't say that or put it in writing. It is against the law. If the company did, they would be sued by the union before the ink was dry. The fact that you want people to challenge management to do so is ridiculous.

 

[hank1292]

Additional thought. The FJPOC and 1108 have all stated that if the union is voted in the new JCBA will include pay rates at or higher than the new NJ TA. I have been told this face to face by FJPOC members. It is splashed all over the VUH. Bet they (IBT or the local) won't put that in writing. You asked for both sides to be held to the same standard. I can only shake my head.

For what it's worth I don't see any sort of pay raise coming out of the mess either way the vote goes. We will be lucky to keep what we have now.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

It certainly will not go up without the union. Before the union Kenn always said FO would be the highest paid. Then nj got their first raise and instead of following through and giving the FO pilots a raise he said nj is unsustainable. So then fj and cs gave their pilots a raise to keep out the unions. In the meantime Kenn is removed and cashes out of FO to the tune of about 70 million. And FO get Sheringa and now a union. NJ gets another raise and so does fj and cs. FO did not get any raise until the union ta and that was done during what some are calling the worst economic downturn ever! But it STILL provided about 30 percent or more increase + col increases and work rules!

 

[slowtation capt]

Additional thought. The FJPOC and 1108 have all stated that if the union is voted in the new JCBA will include pay rates at or higher than the new NJ TA. I have been told this face to face by FJPOC members. It is splashed all over the VUH. Bet they (IBT or the local) won't put that in writing. You asked for both sides to be held to the same standard. I can only shake my head.

For what it's worth I don't see any sort of pay raise coming out of the mess either way the vote goes. We will be lucky to keep what we have now.

You are twisting what people are saying on the VUH

People stated that NJ+ should be what we strive for in negotiations.

Nobody said they promise NJ+

 

[gunfyter]

That's awesome! You're cracking me up!

Just sayin'. We recently found out 10/250 really means 10/140

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

After15+ years, I'll settle for 10/140. In FO indoc Kenn promised we would be the highest paid in the fractional industry. Now, even with Red Label, we will not have the highest paid.

 

[Praetorian]

Just sayin'. We recently found out 10/250 really means 10/140

Random thought:

A 10 year Capt at Flight Options makes $85 on the 8/7 with no 401k. This makes us kinda cranky. But hey, ya get what ya pay for. :angryfire

 

[hank1292]

After15+ years, I'll settle for 10/140. In FO indoc Kenn promised we would be the highest paid in the fractional industry. Now, even with Red Label, we will not have the highest paid.

That is a problem right there. Why would any Flex pilot want to vote yes if the Options pilots are willing to settle for a pay scale that is the same or lower than what we have now? A JCBA that has pay scales between Options' and Flex's is a bad deal for Flex pilots and we are outnumbered from the get go. Your willing to settle! Wow!

As far as me twisting what has been said on the VUH i disagree but have better things to do than go look through all the strings on there to prove it so lets just agree to disagree on that point. I still contend that the 1108 cheer leaders have tried to lead pilots to believe that the can get us a raise equal to or better than Netjets new TA.

As far as direct face to face communication with FJPOC, I have discussed this at length with several members and each and everyone said that a JCBA would lead to pay scales equal to Netjets TA without fail. I call BS.

 

[dime line]

Additional thought. The FJPOC and 1108 have all stated that if the union is voted in the new JCBA will include pay rates at or higher than the new NJ TA. I have been told this face to face by FJPOC members. It is splashed all over the VUH. Bet they (IBT or the local) won't put that in writing. You asked for both sides to be held to the same standard. I can only shake my head.

For what it's worth I don't see any sort of pay raise coming out of the mess either way the vote goes. We will be lucky to keep what we have now.

Well for what its worth, you just cost about 5000.00 off of the contract with that attitude. Wow. How many NJ guys have you ever heard saying that crap

 

[dime line]

It certainly will not go up without the union. Before the union Kenn always said FO would be the highest paid. Then nj got their first raise and instead of following through and giving the FO pilots a raise he said nj is unsustainable. So then fj and cs gave their pilots a raise to keep out the unions. In the meantime Kenn is removed and cashes out of FO to the tune of about 70 million. And FO get Sheringa and now a union. NJ gets another raise and so does fj and cs. FO did not get any raise until the union ta and that was done during what some are calling the worst economic downturn ever! But it STILL provided about 30 percent or more increase + col increases and work rules!

We took it in the shorts 6 years ago, this next contract better make up for the last 5 years or at least some of it. How much have we lost just with the 401k compounded over 20 or so years.

 

[dime line]

After15+ years, I'll settle for 10/140. In FO indoc Kenn promised we would be the highest paid in the fractional industry. Now, even with Red Label, we will not have the highest paid.

I will not

 

[hank1292]

Well for what its worth, you just cost about 5000.00 off of the contract with that attitude. Wow. How many NJ guys have you ever heard saying that crap

I didn't cost us anything. Folks like GC will cost us because they will "settle". He said it not me. I will not "settle" for a pay cut. If the 1108 is voted in I will pay my dues, be a MIG and fully support the cause. I just don't agree that Flex pilots will gain anything monetarily.

If the 1108 is voted in I don't believe the IBT will do what is necessary to secure the pay scale the are proposing. (Notice i didn't say promising. See my earlier agreement to agree not disagree) All Onesky has to do is hold out on check-off and the union will fold on salary demands like an old lawn chair in order to secure their income stream. Management could also refuse the to accept the "union security agreement" that requires union membership or agency fees in order to be employed at Onesky and poof there goes more of the memberships wishes all in order to secure union income stream. The IBT, like any union, is in this to make money period.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Thanks hank. My new position is no concessions on work rules with a larger pay increase.

 

[hank1292]

GC, I do understand that 10/140 is a pay increase for the majority of Onesky pilots but you and the rest need to understand that is is not for a good portion of us. The next question I have is what work rules do the Options pilots have with the 1108 that are better than what Flex pilots have without? I know that the twitch response is that what y'all have is locked in and "can't be changed by an email on Friday afternoon". But really what is so different?

 

[dime line]

GC, I do understand that 10/140 is a pay increase for the majority of Onesky pilots but you and the rest need to understand that is is not for a good portion of us. The next question I have is what work rules do the Options pilots have with the 1108 that are better than what Flex pilots have without? I know that the twitch response is that what y'all have is locked in and "can't be changed by an email on Friday afternoon". But really what is so different?

Yea there is no more "Kangaroo Court", you have somebody on your side. You need to remember, what you have today is only due to the threat of the Union vote, you are way overpaid in Riccis mind.

I remember that "email" happened on a Friday saying the domicile policy had changed and a lot of pilots got the 'move" or "quit" email from the company. This happened a few years ago. And yea, its in writing, that is a big thing, a huge thing.

 

[993_Pilot]

GC, I do understand that 10/140 is a pay increase for the majority of Onesky pilots but you and the rest need to understand that is is not for a good portion of us. The next question I have is what work rules do the Options pilots have with the 1108 that are better than what Flex pilots have without? I know that the twitch response is that what y'all have is locked in and "can't be changed by an email on Friday afternoon". But really what is so different?

The difference, is that our written CBA can be enforced. How did your written employment "contract" with the STIP bonus work out for you? Do you think that Kenn Ricci will suddenly give you more, out of the goodness of his heart? Heck, what you have now, is mostly due to Netjets and to Bombardier's desire to diminish the threat of a union at Flexjet. Is Kenn Ricci paying the G-450 pilots more than the Challenger 605 pilots already make? Do you really think that will suddenly change? Get real, you don't work for Bombardier any more, you now work for Kenn Ricci/DAC, and you haven't even worked for him without the threat of a union hanging over his head yet. The union can't promise you anything other than our contract will only be as good as our solidarity. So quit your whining and help build that solidarity instead of asking what's in it for ME and wanting things that you aren't willing to work for. Do you even wear or display any pro-union bling? When was the last time you saw any Netjets pilot without their union support bling? I guess it is somewhat understandable given Kenn Ricci's history of randomly firing pro-union at-will employees, but too many Flexjet pilots live in fear and are afraid to openly show their support, even though I know a lot of them secretly do. Is this really how you want to spend the rest of your career? I sure hope that changes after the vote, because the only guarantee is that if we don't overwhelmingly vote YES and garner some real solidarity, then there will be nothing left worth fighting for at Flexjet/Options/OneSky.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

GC, I do understand that 10/140 is a pay increase for the majority of Onesky pilots but you and the rest need to understand that is is not for a good portion of us. The next question I have is what work rules do the Options pilots have with the 1108 that are better than what Flex pilots have without? I know that the twitch response is that what y'all have is locked in and "can't be changed by an email on Friday afternoon". But really what is so different?

Hank, the only reason the Flex pilos have not had a bigger pay cut, is the threat of the Flex pilots unionizing. It sounds like you are not a union supporter, but you are already enjoying the benefits.

 

[warlord19]

Hank, if you want to hear a more balanced account of what the real issues and problems are at Flexjet/FO, you need to go elsewhere…..this board hosts an unrelenting stream of IBT zealots who regurgitate their bile, half(third)truths, and propagate the BIG LIE.
Regards,

WL/RH/BIGFOOT...

 

[Bjtdrvr]

Hank, if you want to hear a more balanced account of what the real issues and problems are at Flexjet/FO, you need to go elsewhere?..this board hosts an unrelenting stream of IBT zealots who regurgitate their bile, half(third)truths, and propagate the BIG LIE.
Regards,

WL/RH/BIGFOOT...

Do you really want to go there? About lying?

 

[warlord19]

Uh, we've been there for months.
WL

 

[Praetorian]

Uh, we've been there for months.
WL

Hey man, don't sell yourself short. You've been lying a lot longer than that.

 

[doh]

Hank, Handscrew keeps insisting the union put in writing exactly what the seniority list will be when the SLI is done. SLI involves a negotiation, therefore it is impossible to say exactly what the final list will be. Since he demands the impossible from the union, it is absolutely fair that we pilots demand he live up to that same standard! He is, after all, the one who set that as the standard.

 

[993_Pilot]

Hank, if you want to hear a more balanced account of what the real issues and problems are at Flexjet/FO, you need to go elsewhere?..

What you really mean, is to go somewhere that nobody can or will contest the outright lies and half truths that management will tell. If you haven't figured it out already, Kenn likes to surround himself with bobble headed yes-men. If what management has to say is so true and righteous, then it should be be able to stand up to a little scrutiny. So, why won't they let the Flight Options pilots on Yammer to question them? Why wouldn't Kenn Ricci debate the union? Why has it been over a month since Kenn Ricci's filmed his "un-edited" interview and it still hasn't been released? Maybe Kenn is too busy getting more military training? The real truth is that management's account of the issues can't stand up to the light of day, unless they go unchallenged.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Hank, Handscrew keeps insisting the union put in writing exactly what the seniority list will be when the SLI is done. SLI involves a negotiation, therefore it is impossible to say exactly what the final list will be. Since he demands the impossible from the union, it is absolutely fair that we pilots demand he live up to that same standard! He is, after all, the one who set that as the standard.

See there you "union" lovers go misspelling his name again. When are you gonna learn it's not spelled the way it sounds?

Make an effort to be correct please. It's Handskrew.

I believe it's dutch in origin. You know, Amsterdam where prostitution is an accepted part of culture and "smokin' and drankin'" King Kenn's special blend really messes with your senses and vision.

Seriously though a concern from another board I read is the issue of SLI arbitration. If we go non-union the way Handskrew is suggesting and SLI ends up in arbitration, who will pay the Flexjet costs? The union side answered honestly and said we would have to pay ourselves while Flops would still have funds available through the IBT since single carrier was started by them while they were still members.

That is a potential, actually likely, scenario because IMHO both sides will have lost their motivation to unite as a single group with the IBT to foster any real unity. Ricci certainly won't encourage cohesiveness because his entire plan rests on division and acrimony. Unity is probably Ricci's biggest fear but he is using the "sheep and cheap" mentality of pilots to further his agenda of no union. Easy pickings for our Flexjet group.

So in that likely scenario why doesn't management commit right now to funding arbitration costs for Flex pilots. Afterall, doing so certainly would quickly prove Rick's arguments. Hell it might even make me wonder if I've got it all wrong.

Or is the smoking gun that proves his lies the fact he won't commit to it? Remember, he'll argue management is already implementing SLI but that's not really true. They are implementing list transfers. Integration can only legally happen through committee and management is purposefully shut out of the process under MB.

Can someone please ask this question directly?

 

[dime line]

See there you "union" lovers go misspelling his name again. When are you gonna learn it's not spelled the way it sounds?

Make an effort to be correct please. It's Handskrew.

I believe it's dutch in origin. You know, Amsterdam where prostitution is an accepted part of culture and "smokin' and drankin'" King Kenn's special blend really messes with your senses and vision.

Seriously though a concern from another board I read is the issue of SLI arbitration. If we go non-union the way Handskrew is suggesting and SLI ends up in arbitration, who will pay the Flexjet costs? The union side answered honestly and said we would have to pay ourselves while Flops would still have funds available through the IBT since single carrier was started by them while they were still members.

That is a potential, actually likely, scenario because IMHO both sides will have lost their motivation to unite as a single group with the IBT to foster any real unity. Ricci certainly won't encourage cohesiveness because his entire plan rests on division and acrimony. Unity is probably Ricci's biggest fear but he is using the "sheep and cheap" mentality of pilots to further his agenda of no union. Easy pickings for our Flexjet group.

So in that likely scenario why doesn't management commit right now to funding arbitration costs for Flex pilots. Afterall, doing so certainly would quickly prove Rick's arguments. Hell it might even make me wonder if I've got it all wrong.

Or is the smoking gun that proves his lies the fact he won't commit to it? Remember, he'll argue management is already implementing SLI but that's not really true. They are implementing list transfers. Integration can only legally happen through committee and management is purposefully shut out of the process under MB.

Can someone please ask this question directly?

Ok, so what, Ricci pays for your arbitration after the union is voted out, the arbitrator does SLI for both groups. question: If your now senior to the FOK's in lets say anything big (more money), do you really think Ricci is gonna displace an junior FOK for you? Do you really think Ricci is gonna pay your by-pass-pay for you to fly a beechjet? See after 18 years here, I/we know the answer. Once arbitrator is done and gone, and no union (or vote), when Ricci doesn't abide by the rulling who is gonna fund a lawsuit against Ricci, You, Me?

oh and BTW, its small, but it all adds up, if a union is gone, so is your pay for parking perk. That was gone in 24hrs after the merger with RTA