Ricci Ruse/Handschuch Hustle

[993_Pilot]

GC, I do understand that 10/140 is a pay increase for the majority of Onesky pilots but you and the rest need to understand that is is not for a good portion of us. The next question I have is what work rules do the Options pilots have with the 1108 that are better than what Flex pilots have without? I know that the twitch response is that what y'all have is locked in and "can't be changed by an email on Friday afternoon". But really what is so different?

The difference, is that our written CBA can be enforced. How did your written employment "contract" with the STIP bonus work out for you? Do you think that Kenn Ricci will suddenly give you more, out of the goodness of his heart? Heck, what you have now, is mostly due to Netjets and to Bombardier's desire to diminish the threat of a union at Flexjet. Is Kenn Ricci paying the G-450 pilots more than the Challenger 605 pilots already make? Do you really think that will suddenly change? Get real, you don't work for Bombardier any more, you now work for Kenn Ricci/DAC, and you haven't even worked for him without the threat of a union hanging over his head yet. The union can't promise you anything other than our contract will only be as good as our solidarity. So quit your whining and help build that solidarity instead of asking what's in it for ME and wanting things that you aren't willing to work for. Do you even wear or display any pro-union bling? When was the last time you saw any Netjets pilot without their union support bling? I guess it is somewhat understandable given Kenn Ricci's history of randomly firing pro-union at-will employees, but too many Flexjet pilots live in fear and are afraid to openly show their support, even though I know a lot of them secretly do. Is this really how you want to spend the rest of your career? I sure hope that changes after the vote, because the only guarantee is that if we don't overwhelmingly vote YES and garner some real solidarity, then there will be nothing left worth fighting for at Flexjet/Options/OneSky.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

GC, I do understand that 10/140 is a pay increase for the majority of Onesky pilots but you and the rest need to understand that is is not for a good portion of us. The next question I have is what work rules do the Options pilots have with the 1108 that are better than what Flex pilots have without? I know that the twitch response is that what y'all have is locked in and "can't be changed by an email on Friday afternoon". But really what is so different?

Hank, the only reason the Flex pilos have not had a bigger pay cut, is the threat of the Flex pilots unionizing. It sounds like you are not a union supporter, but you are already enjoying the benefits.

 

[warlord19]

Hank, if you want to hear a more balanced account of what the real issues and problems are at Flexjet/FO, you need to go elsewhere…..this board hosts an unrelenting stream of IBT zealots who regurgitate their bile, half(third)truths, and propagate the BIG LIE.
Regards,

WL/RH/BIGFOOT...

 

[Bjtdrvr]

Hank, if you want to hear a more balanced account of what the real issues and problems are at Flexjet/FO, you need to go elsewhere?..this board hosts an unrelenting stream of IBT zealots who regurgitate their bile, half(third)truths, and propagate the BIG LIE.
Regards,

WL/RH/BIGFOOT...

Do you really want to go there? About lying?

 

[warlord19]

Uh, we've been there for months.
WL

 

[Praetorian]

Uh, we've been there for months.
WL

Hey man, don't sell yourself short. You've been lying a lot longer than that.

 

[doh]

Hank, Handscrew keeps insisting the union put in writing exactly what the seniority list will be when the SLI is done. SLI involves a negotiation, therefore it is impossible to say exactly what the final list will be. Since he demands the impossible from the union, it is absolutely fair that we pilots demand he live up to that same standard! He is, after all, the one who set that as the standard.

 

[993_Pilot]

Hank, if you want to hear a more balanced account of what the real issues and problems are at Flexjet/FO, you need to go elsewhere?..

What you really mean, is to go somewhere that nobody can or will contest the outright lies and half truths that management will tell. If you haven't figured it out already, Kenn likes to surround himself with bobble headed yes-men. If what management has to say is so true and righteous, then it should be be able to stand up to a little scrutiny. So, why won't they let the Flight Options pilots on Yammer to question them? Why wouldn't Kenn Ricci debate the union? Why has it been over a month since Kenn Ricci's filmed his "un-edited" interview and it still hasn't been released? Maybe Kenn is too busy getting more military training? The real truth is that management's account of the issues can't stand up to the light of day, unless they go unchallenged.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Hank, Handscrew keeps insisting the union put in writing exactly what the seniority list will be when the SLI is done. SLI involves a negotiation, therefore it is impossible to say exactly what the final list will be. Since he demands the impossible from the union, it is absolutely fair that we pilots demand he live up to that same standard! He is, after all, the one who set that as the standard.

See there you "union" lovers go misspelling his name again. When are you gonna learn it's not spelled the way it sounds?

Make an effort to be correct please. It's Handskrew.

I believe it's dutch in origin. You know, Amsterdam where prostitution is an accepted part of culture and "smokin' and drankin'" King Kenn's special blend really messes with your senses and vision.

Seriously though a concern from another board I read is the issue of SLI arbitration. If we go non-union the way Handskrew is suggesting and SLI ends up in arbitration, who will pay the Flexjet costs? The union side answered honestly and said we would have to pay ourselves while Flops would still have funds available through the IBT since single carrier was started by them while they were still members.

That is a potential, actually likely, scenario because IMHO both sides will have lost their motivation to unite as a single group with the IBT to foster any real unity. Ricci certainly won't encourage cohesiveness because his entire plan rests on division and acrimony. Unity is probably Ricci's biggest fear but he is using the "sheep and cheap" mentality of pilots to further his agenda of no union. Easy pickings for our Flexjet group.

So in that likely scenario why doesn't management commit right now to funding arbitration costs for Flex pilots. Afterall, doing so certainly would quickly prove Rick's arguments. Hell it might even make me wonder if I've got it all wrong.

Or is the smoking gun that proves his lies the fact he won't commit to it? Remember, he'll argue management is already implementing SLI but that's not really true. They are implementing list transfers. Integration can only legally happen through committee and management is purposefully shut out of the process under MB.

Can someone please ask this question directly?

 

[dime line]

See there you "union" lovers go misspelling his name again. When are you gonna learn it's not spelled the way it sounds?

Make an effort to be correct please. It's Handskrew.

I believe it's dutch in origin. You know, Amsterdam where prostitution is an accepted part of culture and "smokin' and drankin'" King Kenn's special blend really messes with your senses and vision.

Seriously though a concern from another board I read is the issue of SLI arbitration. If we go non-union the way Handskrew is suggesting and SLI ends up in arbitration, who will pay the Flexjet costs? The union side answered honestly and said we would have to pay ourselves while Flops would still have funds available through the IBT since single carrier was started by them while they were still members.

That is a potential, actually likely, scenario because IMHO both sides will have lost their motivation to unite as a single group with the IBT to foster any real unity. Ricci certainly won't encourage cohesiveness because his entire plan rests on division and acrimony. Unity is probably Ricci's biggest fear but he is using the "sheep and cheap" mentality of pilots to further his agenda of no union. Easy pickings for our Flexjet group.

So in that likely scenario why doesn't management commit right now to funding arbitration costs for Flex pilots. Afterall, doing so certainly would quickly prove Rick's arguments. Hell it might even make me wonder if I've got it all wrong.

Or is the smoking gun that proves his lies the fact he won't commit to it? Remember, he'll argue management is already implementing SLI but that's not really true. They are implementing list transfers. Integration can only legally happen through committee and management is purposefully shut out of the process under MB.

Can someone please ask this question directly?

Ok, so what, Ricci pays for your arbitration after the union is voted out, the arbitrator does SLI for both groups. question: If your now senior to the FOK's in lets say anything big (more money), do you really think Ricci is gonna displace an junior FOK for you? Do you really think Ricci is gonna pay your by-pass-pay for you to fly a beechjet? See after 18 years here, I/we know the answer. Once arbitrator is done and gone, and no union (or vote), when Ricci doesn't abide by the rulling who is gonna fund a lawsuit against Ricci, You, Me?

oh and BTW, its small, but it all adds up, if a union is gone, so is your pay for parking perk. That was gone in 24hrs after the merger with RTA

 

[SDCFI]

oh and BTW, its small, but it all adds up, if a union is gone, so is your pay for parking perk. That was gone in 24hrs after the merger with RTA

Well since I'm already trying to eat my bonus through the new meal plan guess I'll have to start adding more desserts to cover the parking too!

 

[hank1292]

Y'all have gone out to left field on this string and I guess I played into it. My whole point was that it is disingenuous of someone to challenge management to put something on paper that they can't legally do and then run around saying "look, I told ya so" when they don't do it.

On a whole different subject; If you don't like the managers and what they are saying that is your choice. No problem here. But do the 1108 cheerleaders really have to call people names? It does not help your cause the call RH all the variations that have been come up with. I think it just shows immaturity. We, as a group, are supposed to be proffesionals and should be able to discuss this stuff without name calling. Maybe it's just me. When I see that kind of stuff it makes me think a lot less of whoever posts it mental abilities. That in turn lowers my willingness to accept what they are saying. Go ahead and call me a crybaby now.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Y'all have gone out to left field on this string and I guess I played into it. My whole point was that it is disingenuous of someone to challenge management to put something on paper that they can't legally do and then run around saying "look, I told ya so" when they don't do it.

So why did management want the union to release the SLI results before the committee even met? And no you are not a crybaby, you are just disingenuous.

 

[hank1292]

GC, Results of a proposed SLI are not prohibited by law. Besides MB clearly states that if both groups are represented by the same agency then SLI is done via the agencies internal policy. I know, I know, "The Airline Division of the IBT does not have a current policy in place" but they sure as h*ll were trying to put one in place not to long ago that would screw Flex pilots.

Asking a company to publish something in writing that is clearly illegally for them to do and then screaming because they don't is nothing more than window dressing to fool the less educated. I simply wanted to make that point. If the 1108 and its supporters can make a good argument that wins the hearts and minds of the people the want to represent then good for them. Why use "smoke and mirrors" and name calling?

How is that disingenuous?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

You are trying to set yourself up as a victim. The only one calling you a crybaby is yourself. And since you brought up the Flex pilots getting screwed, you have obviously not worked for KR long enough.

 

[993_Pilot]

GC, Results of a proposed SLI are not prohibited by law. Besides MB clearly states that if both groups are represented by the same agency then SLI is done via the agencies internal policy. I know, I know, "The Airline Division of the IBT does not have a current policy in place" but they sure as h*ll were trying to put one in place not to long ago that would screw Flex pilots.

Asking a company to publish something in writing that is clearly illegally for them to do and then screaming because they don't is nothing more than window dressing to fool the less educated. I simply wanted to make that point. If the 1108 and its supporters can make a good argument that wins the hearts and minds of the people the want to represent then good for them. Why use "smoke and mirrors" and name calling?

How is that disingenuous?

Haven't you been paying attention?... It is disingenuous because even IF the IBT Airline division did have a SLI policy, it wouldn't be a factor in the Options/Flexjet SLI because both groups are not represented by the IBT. You actually already stated that, so who exactly is spouting window dressing to fool the less educated? DUH! An internal policy only means something if both groups are represented by the same union... and I know that you already know that, so quit trying to fool the masses. (Nice Try, though!)

I might agree with you on the name calling, but for the most part, RH, KR and others have earned their nick-names.

You Jones/Day boys aren't quite as bright as as the salaries you command would suggest, are you?

 

[doh]

GC, Results of a proposed SLI are not prohibited by law. Besides MB clearly states that if both groups are represented by the same agency then SLI is done via the agencies internal policy. I know, I know, "The Airline Division of the IBT does not have a current policy in place" but they sure as h*ll were trying to put one in place not to long ago that would screw Flex pilots.

Asking a company to publish something in writing that is clearly illegally for them to do and then screaming because they don't is nothing more than window dressing to fool the less educated. I simply wanted to make that point. If the 1108 and its supporters can make a good argument that wins the hearts and minds of the people the want to represent then good for them. Why use "smoke and mirrors" and name calling?

How is that disingenuous?

But they have told you, over and over and over, ad naseum, what the policy is: Flexjet merger committee and Flight Options merger committee negotiate. If they can't complete negotiations, an arbitrator decides.
It is no more possible for the POC, or the Flight Options MEC to give you a completed list before negotiations, than it is for management to put the "highest paid pilots in the industry" promise into writing. AND, just spreading that verbally, is an illegal attempt to interfere with our union drive.

 

[realityman]

You do know that they (management) can't say that or put it in writing. It is against the law. If the company did, they would be sued by the union before the ink was dry. The fact that you want people to challenge management to do so is ridiculous.

Yeah, because KR hasn't already (even recently) done anything to break the law.
Nope, he plays by the rules. No worries.

 

[exagony]

confessions of a union buster - lots of similarities with what Flexjet management is doing through Jones Day

https://youtu.be/a-0gxca-VxM

 

[exagony]

www.oneskywatch.com - be sure to watch the union buster section - will open your eyes to the truth