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RFP Announced at DCI
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The most important things to remember in this whole DCI RFP is that it is still subject to change, DAL could decide that it does not want the additional RJ's, DCI can still give them to some other carrier, ASA management will use them against us during our contract talks.
I'll believe that ASA is getting 25 new aircraft when I see them on our ramp in CVG. Oh, even after ASA takes delivery of these aircraft, they can still be redistributed. We have no scope, we have no aircraft of our own, we have no flying of our own.
I'll believe that ASA is getting 25 new aircraft when I see them on our ramp in CVG. Oh, even after ASA takes delivery of these aircraft, they can still be redistributed. We have no scope, we have no aircraft of our own, we have no flying of our own.
tinpusher101
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embraerdriver
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OldManPilot
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I think company pride is a great thing. I am glad to see pilots that have strong feelings about their airline; however, it has now become a childish type "my dad can beat up your dad" kind of argument.
It would be so nice if all airline pilots made the same pay, but that will never happen, and even if it did some would still find ways to stir it up with other pilot groups.
Sure Chautauqua pilots make less than Comair pilots. And in a small way that does help our managment to bid at a lower rate than Comair. To get the flying all Comair had to do is make themselves competitive. Not Chautuaqua's fault there. Comair pilots decided to make a stand, and this is what happenend.
But just as Comair pilots strongly defend their pay, Chautauqua pilots feel that we got what we could in our contract post 9/11.
I am glad to see Comair pilots stand strong for what they believe in, but that does not mean that other airlines must feel the same way. Every pilot group is faced with different issues which dictate what they can, or what they cannot achieve within their own contracts. We at Chautauqua got what we wanted for compensation for now. Part of why we took our present pay rates was to allow us to compete in a post 9/11 environment. But we only took this for a 3 year contract so when things have stabilized we can reevaluate our contract.
Unfortunatly, DAL is taking it out on Comair by not providing more growth. But as has been said, If that is how it will be, then that is how it will be. Takes alot of guts to stand up like that.
Chautauqua is a contract carrier. We have been doing that for 30 yrs. We will continue be a contract carrier in the future. In order to survive as a contract carrier we MUST be competitive in our bidding for additional flying. It's not that the pilots want to see other W.O. airlines denied the future growth, but when it comes down to it, it is competition, and the lower bid will win. It is like that in business.
As and example you will never see Ford motor company refuse a large lease deal, just because Chevrolet was not competitive, and they felt sorry for them.
So in closing, be proud of your companies, but if bidding for flying is going to be competitive, then don't get angry if you don't do anything to help your company compete.
I
It would be so nice if all airline pilots made the same pay, but that will never happen, and even if it did some would still find ways to stir it up with other pilot groups.
Sure Chautauqua pilots make less than Comair pilots. And in a small way that does help our managment to bid at a lower rate than Comair. To get the flying all Comair had to do is make themselves competitive. Not Chautuaqua's fault there. Comair pilots decided to make a stand, and this is what happenend.
But just as Comair pilots strongly defend their pay, Chautauqua pilots feel that we got what we could in our contract post 9/11.
I am glad to see Comair pilots stand strong for what they believe in, but that does not mean that other airlines must feel the same way. Every pilot group is faced with different issues which dictate what they can, or what they cannot achieve within their own contracts. We at Chautauqua got what we wanted for compensation for now. Part of why we took our present pay rates was to allow us to compete in a post 9/11 environment. But we only took this for a 3 year contract so when things have stabilized we can reevaluate our contract.
Unfortunatly, DAL is taking it out on Comair by not providing more growth. But as has been said, If that is how it will be, then that is how it will be. Takes alot of guts to stand up like that.
Chautauqua is a contract carrier. We have been doing that for 30 yrs. We will continue be a contract carrier in the future. In order to survive as a contract carrier we MUST be competitive in our bidding for additional flying. It's not that the pilots want to see other W.O. airlines denied the future growth, but when it comes down to it, it is competition, and the lower bid will win. It is like that in business.
As and example you will never see Ford motor company refuse a large lease deal, just because Chevrolet was not competitive, and they felt sorry for them.
So in closing, be proud of your companies, but if bidding for flying is going to be competitive, then don't get angry if you don't do anything to help your company compete.
I
sleepy said:
Doesn't matter if you were Regional Airline of the Year 4 or 5 years ago or not, that doesn't make you Regional of the Year today. Obviously Chautauqua has excelled in the last year and they've been recognized for it. They're a good airline, with a superior safety record and excellent customer service. They wouldn't have recieved that award if they were "morons". Congratulations Chautauqua!
FDJ2 said:Doesn't matter if you were Regional Airline of the Year 4 or 5 years ago or not, that doesn't make you Regional of the Year today. Obviously Chautauqua has excelled in the last year and they've been recognized for it. They're a good airline, with a superior safety record and excellent customer service. They wouldn't have recieved that award if they were "morons". Congratulations Chautauqua!
And who gives out that (so called) award? Would that be the Regional Air Transport Assn? I believe our President, Skip Barnett, is the President of the RATA right now (it rotates around). The RATA is an airline management orginization. I guess that makes Chitaco management's lap-dogs of the year.
OldManPilot
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OldManPilot
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gordon24 said:
Well, Mr. Poopy Pants (if we're going to continue name calling), I had no trouble picking up our clearance yesterday morning (3-2-04) in GSP. I do not recall having trouble finding out the proper place to receive said clearance and certainly did not ask Eagle for advice as you stated.
YOUR STORY IS A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We all get flamed for doing stupid things, but the least you could do is to wait until something REAL happens.
As for all of the name calling and calling people out for stuff that did not happen, I would like to ask you to refrain from such activities. If something happens for real, if you like, I can send you a PM and then you can post until your heart's content.
Until then go f*ck yourself.
All of you guys are such a DRAG!!!
Sleepy and others want to say we may not get these aircraft or they will be shuffled around the system.
when the RFP came out you guys basically said it was a Phantom 45,yet they did exercise their options they have had all along.
Everyone is so pesimistic, a stressfull way to live.
Fly and do your job, fight for what is justified in the new contract, and have fun for christ sake.
We have 3 of the 15 new 700's on property, some of you said we would not get those,sofar your wrong.
Someone said the company posted misinformation on FLICA about the base of the new 700's, maybe they are using them were they need to until they get more on property?
Fleet management? the ASA way.
We will get they 25 RJ's, and I would bet that if the 70 seater scope clause gets relaxed, that they will convert some of those 25 into 700's.
That is what they really need and by 2005 they will have an answer one way or another on DALPA concessions.
My question is if DALPA will try to get furloughs in those new positions at ASA or the other carriers as part of an agreement?
Fins and Sleepy seem to know a good deal about the inside of ASA, but I have to say you guys stress me out, and I wonder if you enjoy your job at ASA?
I do enjoy my job, and I know the inside of ASA pretty well too..
portfolio Fred used to get instruction at my flight center, as well as our senior VP of ground op's, and my boss used to be VP of flight op's at ASA, at the same flight center.
that does not make me know all about ASA in any way, but I did learn alot.
My point is, that you guys/girls need to get over the conspiracy theories, and relax a bit and have a good time doing your job.
I am not a "company man", I believe the union is needed, I think RJDC has a good case, and I think ASA management wants as many airplanes as possible for their own longevity, they want more money too and growth gives them that.
Cheers,
Medeco
Sleepy and others want to say we may not get these aircraft or they will be shuffled around the system.
when the RFP came out you guys basically said it was a Phantom 45,yet they did exercise their options they have had all along.
Everyone is so pesimistic, a stressfull way to live.
Fly and do your job, fight for what is justified in the new contract, and have fun for christ sake.
We have 3 of the 15 new 700's on property, some of you said we would not get those,sofar your wrong.
Someone said the company posted misinformation on FLICA about the base of the new 700's, maybe they are using them were they need to until they get more on property?
Fleet management? the ASA way.
We will get they 25 RJ's, and I would bet that if the 70 seater scope clause gets relaxed, that they will convert some of those 25 into 700's.
That is what they really need and by 2005 they will have an answer one way or another on DALPA concessions.
My question is if DALPA will try to get furloughs in those new positions at ASA or the other carriers as part of an agreement?
Fins and Sleepy seem to know a good deal about the inside of ASA, but I have to say you guys stress me out, and I wonder if you enjoy your job at ASA?
I do enjoy my job, and I know the inside of ASA pretty well too..
portfolio Fred used to get instruction at my flight center, as well as our senior VP of ground op's, and my boss used to be VP of flight op's at ASA, at the same flight center.
that does not make me know all about ASA in any way, but I did learn alot.
My point is, that you guys/girls need to get over the conspiracy theories, and relax a bit and have a good time doing your job.
I am not a "company man", I believe the union is needed, I think RJDC has a good case, and I think ASA management wants as many airplanes as possible for their own longevity, they want more money too and growth gives them that.
Cheers,
Medeco
BLA BLA BLA...ok, whatever............remember Mother Delta has the crystal ball......
anyways, I just have one thing to say about Captains who choose to deice at the sign of a snowflake.......think about what would happen if something happened, it doesn't matter what, but something happened on that flight and the FAA decided to ask the question about why you didn't deice before you took off or taxied?????........ remember guys, its a cover your butt industry, as the pilot in command half the stuff you do, ok more than that, is cover your butt stuff....including deiceing at the sign of a flake if they choose...............so chill about this....its not the sign of being a "chicken" its a sign of experience or at least recognizing that you need to cover your butt....because they will hang you at the first chance......
anyways, I just have one thing to say about Captains who choose to deice at the sign of a snowflake.......think about what would happen if something happened, it doesn't matter what, but something happened on that flight and the FAA decided to ask the question about why you didn't deice before you took off or taxied?????........ remember guys, its a cover your butt industry, as the pilot in command half the stuff you do, ok more than that, is cover your butt stuff....including deiceing at the sign of a flake if they choose...............so chill about this....its not the sign of being a "chicken" its a sign of experience or at least recognizing that you need to cover your butt....because they will hang you at the first chance......
sleepy said:
I don't think so and I don't think other mainline carriers think so when it comes to evaluating who should provide small jet lift. Chautauqua has done a great job at DAL and its not gone unnoticed. Instead of belittling their achievements, we should acknowledge that Chautauqua crews have done an exceptional and professional job as it relates to customer service and safety. Instead of the sophomoric name calling that too often infests these boards a professional acknowledgement of a job well done Chautauqua is in order.
Nindiri
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The award is nice, but in addition to the "attaboys" and pats on the back, I suspect the Chautauqua pilots would prefer Delta pay their company enough to more fairly compensate them for their hard work, instead of squeezing every last dime they can from them. Awards are nice, but money is a better incentive, at least to me.
In any event, congrats to all Chautauqua employees for a job well done.
Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
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Nindiri said:
Maybe you guys will get lucky and get 2 cookies at the end of the year.
I have friends at CHQ and have ridden in the same hotel van with them before, and they are no different than you or I. We are trying to make an honest living on wages that are well below what we are all worth.
And by the way, I've botched many radio calls before, and I will do it in the future. Hell, I hear it all the time around ATL, from ASA, Comair, Delta, Air Tran, etc.
Telling the F/As to prepare the cabin for departure...on Tower Freq.
Calling for clearances on Ops Freq
Giving On and In times to Ramp Tower
The list goes on.
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Corbon
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Great attitude. Why is it all you guys do is look at the payscale to determine whether a contract is good or bad? Sure, MAYBE we could have made Comair + wages but our QOL would suck. I'm sure the few bucks we give up on pay per hour is made back in other areas of the contract. For example, no longer do reserves get paid only what they fly when they're called in. Now we get paid for 4 hours or block. We have reserves getting paid for 120+ hours of work a month. Cancellation pay? Yep, as long as we have 98.5% completion factor, which we usually do. No junior manning either. My days off are mine. If I want overtime I take it. If I don't I simply tell them "no thanks". Pref bid system is coming soon which will take a little adjusting to but should be a good thing in the long run. Medical reimbursement is also new. Thats an extra $140 a year or so for captains, which is small but just one of the things that saves us money and adds up in the long run. Keep in mind this is the first regional contract post 9/11 in a struggling economy but it doesn't appear that basic economics is within your realm of understanding. Also, this is a very short term contract that we can use as a building block for a great contract in a few years.
These are just some of the benefits I can think of off the top of my head, which have been covered in countless previous posts I'm sure. Before you judge a contract, maybe you should read the whole thing and not just one section. Your ignorance on this issue is obvious and I realize that I'm probably not going to change your mind. I'd bet that the average Chautauqua pilot is probably more satisfied with his/her life than you are of yours. So maybe you're the one with the problem, not us. You should go whine to a furloughed mainline pilot who used to fly a 737 on the same route you're flying an RJ for half the pay and see how much pity he has for you. Give it up. I'm outta here. Gotta decide on the Pings or the Callaways. Oh wait, I couldn't possibly afford golf, I work for Chautauqua under a piss poor contract...I'll go count up my food stamps instead.
Medeco,
Sorry to be so "negative". I wonder if you realize that our management is already telling our pilot group that we could have had all 45 of the phantom jets if we had only given concessions when they asked for them. Look at all of that imaginary grouth we could have had!
Management will try to use this phantom jet order to keep our contract right were it is as far as pay and work rules go. They will say, "we won the aircraft in the RFP based on your current contract, if you make our costs go up, DCI might send those aircraft to Chitaco or Skywest". They will attempt to use this to drive a wedge between our younger pilots (who want the up-grade to Captain) and the pilots who have been here longer, already have their upgrade, and want better pay and QOL.
Medeco,
I want to get the upgrade too. I am very close, and this phantom jet order, if it materalizes, will put me over the top. I just don't think it would be worth it to sell-out our profession, like some on here have done, in order to get a little growth. Would you really like to spend 5 years as a Captain on reserve with our current contract, with no retirement, no rigs, poor health care coverage for your family, a crappy 401K, etc........? I know that I don't.
I do like my job at ASA, and I want it to be the best possible place to work. I am willing to fight to do that. I hope you are too. Perhapes you should spend less time with management types, listening to their propaganda, and more time examining their true motives.
Here is an example for you from a recent trip of how ASA cares; CS called a reserve FA in for our trip. She had broken two of her toes that night (one on each foot), and was in the ER when they called her. She explained what had happened, and CS told her that if she didn't do the trip she would get her second occurance and be fired (she is still on probation). She hobbled from the ER to the airport and was ready to do the trip with two broken toes. At last, the FA supervisor told her that she could not fly the trip, arranged for a replacement, and sent her home. This is how ASA management really treats it's employees. Is growth worth 5 more years of that?
Sorry to be so "negative". I wonder if you realize that our management is already telling our pilot group that we could have had all 45 of the phantom jets if we had only given concessions when they asked for them. Look at all of that imaginary grouth we could have had!
Management will try to use this phantom jet order to keep our contract right were it is as far as pay and work rules go. They will say, "we won the aircraft in the RFP based on your current contract, if you make our costs go up, DCI might send those aircraft to Chitaco or Skywest". They will attempt to use this to drive a wedge between our younger pilots (who want the up-grade to Captain) and the pilots who have been here longer, already have their upgrade, and want better pay and QOL.
Medeco,
I want to get the upgrade too. I am very close, and this phantom jet order, if it materalizes, will put me over the top. I just don't think it would be worth it to sell-out our profession, like some on here have done, in order to get a little growth. Would you really like to spend 5 years as a Captain on reserve with our current contract, with no retirement, no rigs, poor health care coverage for your family, a crappy 401K, etc........? I know that I don't.
I do like my job at ASA, and I want it to be the best possible place to work. I am willing to fight to do that. I hope you are too. Perhapes you should spend less time with management types, listening to their propaganda, and more time examining their true motives.
Here is an example for you from a recent trip of how ASA cares; CS called a reserve FA in for our trip. She had broken two of her toes that night (one on each foot), and was in the ER when they called her. She explained what had happened, and CS told her that if she didn't do the trip she would get her second occurance and be fired (she is still on probation). She hobbled from the ER to the airport and was ready to do the trip with two broken toes. At last, the FA supervisor told her that she could not fly the trip, arranged for a replacement, and sent her home. This is how ASA management really treats it's employees. Is growth worth 5 more years of that?
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Sleepy,
Medeco is right, you need to settle down a little bit. You may very well be right about everything you say, but what are you suppose to do about it. Yeah, we all know that a lot can happen before they get here...but it's not worth freeking out over.
By the way, where has management said that we could have had all the jets if we had taken the extension? The only place I've heard that is on the ALPA message board, and the people who usually post on there are a little wacky if you ask me.
Just be happy we've got some airplanes coming, and we'll deal with the problems you insist will develop as they happen.
Medeco is right, you need to settle down a little bit. You may very well be right about everything you say, but what are you suppose to do about it. Yeah, we all know that a lot can happen before they get here...but it's not worth freeking out over.
By the way, where has management said that we could have had all the jets if we had taken the extension? The only place I've heard that is on the ALPA message board, and the people who usually post on there are a little wacky if you ask me.
Just be happy we've got some airplanes coming, and we'll deal with the problems you insist will develop as they happen.
jumppilot
Something in a box
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Corbon said:
I began counting my food stamps last month, while I had 17 days off with less than 9 months senioirty....People on this board are right, I don't make enough money!!! I can't go golfing on every one of my days off! I have to limit it to 10!
By the way, did I mention that when I took the CHQ job I had an offer from Comair, ASA, Mesa, Horizon and Era? I decided to go with CHQ after learning how the wholy-owned versus contract carrier thing works. Looks like I made a good decision.
Oh, and for the people that don't get sarcasm, CHQ is the only job offer I had in sight, so like most of you (actually, all of you), I took it!
And I couldn't be happier.
If I hear "raising the bar" one more time, I'll puke. WE RAISED THE BAR AT CHQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is all that matters. I don't care about "your bar" My bar is higher. I have two kids, nice 2300 sq ft. home, two car payments, and hey, I even can afford a vacation. Are there FO here, there, and everywhere who should make more? HELL YES. But you know what, any educated person who does their homework should know how much they are going to make as first year FO. If it is such a slap in the face for you, go get a job somewhere else. If you want to get rich, find another field. If you are like me and love to fly and have an excellent QOL, CHQ may be the place for you.
And quit giving me this BS about industry responsibily. When Comair went on strike, they did it for themselves and good for them. If we went on strike last summer, it would have been for the good of CHQ pilots.
And quit giving me this BS about industry responsibily. When Comair went on strike, they did it for themselves and good for them. If we went on strike last summer, it would have been for the good of CHQ pilots.
Sleepy is dead on target.
First of all, Comair is a much tighter run operation then ASA. To say ASA is recieving these aircraft over Comair due to better performance is ludicrous.
Second, You better believe that these 25 CRJ's will be used as a negotiation chip later in the year. The pilot contract negotiations have bogged down and will likely reach an impasse later in the year.
Hopefully the ASA pilot group will remain as steadfast as the Comair pilot group has.
Most importantly, all of this is dependent on the Delta mainline negotiations.
Has anybody heard anything about 300 - 500 Delta Captains putting in their early retirment papers in April or May ?????
First of all, Comair is a much tighter run operation then ASA. To say ASA is recieving these aircraft over Comair due to better performance is ludicrous.
Second, You better believe that these 25 CRJ's will be used as a negotiation chip later in the year. The pilot contract negotiations have bogged down and will likely reach an impasse later in the year.
Hopefully the ASA pilot group will remain as steadfast as the Comair pilot group has.
Most importantly, all of this is dependent on the Delta mainline negotiations.
Has anybody heard anything about 300 - 500 Delta Captains putting in their early retirment papers in April or May ?????
General Lee
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Yes, May 1st. That is the rumor. Due to ---Gatt rate being low (higher lump sum pay out), April 15th is Vacation pay out for year--(unused vacation will add to this year's FAE), and future pay cuts---(your retirement is based off of your 3 best years--not three last years).
IF the huge retirement actually happens, expect management to ask for relief from Dalpa. They will give it probably in the form of raising cap temporarily to cover people in training.
I don't know if that high number would be reached, but plenty are thinking about leaving. The only way those senior guys would get a raise is if they could get on the 777, and since we only have 8---it is limited. Most have already had their best 3 years.......
Bye Bye--General Lee
IF the huge retirement actually happens, expect management to ask for relief from Dalpa. They will give it probably in the form of raising cap temporarily to cover people in training.
I don't know if that high number would be reached, but plenty are thinking about leaving. The only way those senior guys would get a raise is if they could get on the 777, and since we only have 8---it is limited. Most have already had their best 3 years.......
Bye Bye--General Lee
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