RFP Announced at DCI

[Stifler's Mom]

The award is nice, but in addition to the "attaboys" and pats on the back, I suspect the Chautauqua pilots would prefer Delta pay their company enough to more fairly compensate them for their hard work, instead of squeezing every last dime they can from them. Awards are nice, but money is a better incentive, at least to me.

In any event, congrats to all Chautauqua employees for a job well done.

Maybe you guys will get lucky and get 2 cookies at the end of the year.

I have friends at CHQ and have ridden in the same hotel van with them before, and they are no different than you or I. We are trying to make an honest living on wages that are well below what we are all worth.

And by the way, I've botched many radio calls before, and I will do it in the future. Hell, I hear it all the time around ATL, from ASA, Comair, Delta, Air Tran, etc.

Telling the F/As to prepare the cabin for departure...on Tower Freq.
Calling for clearances on Ops Freq
Giving On and In times to Ramp Tower
The list goes on.

 

[Corbon]

Also, congratulations on lowering the bar with your piss poor contract and making the rest of us have to fight that much harder for fair and equitable wages.

Great attitude. Why is it all you guys do is look at the payscale to determine whether a contract is good or bad? Sure, MAYBE we could have made Comair + wages but our QOL would suck. I'm sure the few bucks we give up on pay per hour is made back in other areas of the contract. For example, no longer do reserves get paid only what they fly when they're called in. Now we get paid for 4 hours or block. We have reserves getting paid for 120+ hours of work a month. Cancellation pay? Yep, as long as we have 98.5% completion factor, which we usually do. No junior manning either. My days off are mine. If I want overtime I take it. If I don't I simply tell them "no thanks". Pref bid system is coming soon which will take a little adjusting to but should be a good thing in the long run. Medical reimbursement is also new. Thats an extra $140 a year or so for captains, which is small but just one of the things that saves us money and adds up in the long run. Keep in mind this is the first regional contract post 9/11 in a struggling economy but it doesn't appear that basic economics is within your realm of understanding. Also, this is a very short term contract that we can use as a building block for a great contract in a few years.

These are just some of the benefits I can think of off the top of my head, which have been covered in countless previous posts I'm sure. Before you judge a contract, maybe you should read the whole thing and not just one section. Your ignorance on this issue is obvious and I realize that I'm probably not going to change your mind. I'd bet that the average Chautauqua pilot is probably more satisfied with his/her life than you are of yours. So maybe you're the one with the problem, not us. You should go whine to a furloughed mainline pilot who used to fly a 737 on the same route you're flying an RJ for half the pay and see how much pity he has for you. Give it up. I'm outta here. Gotta decide on the Pings or the Callaways. Oh wait, I couldn't possibly afford golf, I work for Chautauqua under a piss poor contract...I'll go count up my food stamps instead.

 

[sleepy]

Medeco,

Sorry to be so "negative". I wonder if you realize that our management is already telling our pilot group that we could have had all 45 of the phantom jets if we had only given concessions when they asked for them. Look at all of that imaginary grouth we could have had!

Management will try to use this phantom jet order to keep our contract right were it is as far as pay and work rules go. They will say, "we won the aircraft in the RFP based on your current contract, if you make our costs go up, DCI might send those aircraft to Chitaco or Skywest". They will attempt to use this to drive a wedge between our younger pilots (who want the up-grade to Captain) and the pilots who have been here longer, already have their upgrade, and want better pay and QOL.

Medeco,

I want to get the upgrade too. I am very close, and this phantom jet order, if it materalizes, will put me over the top. I just don't think it would be worth it to sell-out our profession, like some on here have done, in order to get a little growth. Would you really like to spend 5 years as a Captain on reserve with our current contract, with no retirement, no rigs, poor health care coverage for your family, a crappy 401K, etc........? I know that I don't.

I do like my job at ASA, and I want it to be the best possible place to work. I am willing to fight to do that. I hope you are too. Perhapes you should spend less time with management types, listening to their propaganda, and more time examining their true motives.

Here is an example for you from a recent trip of how ASA cares; CS called a reserve FA in for our trip. She had broken two of her toes that night (one on each foot), and was in the ER when they called her. She explained what had happened, and CS told her that if she didn't do the trip she would get her second occurance and be fired (she is still on probation). She hobbled from the ER to the airport and was ready to do the trip with two broken toes. At last, the FA supervisor told her that she could not fly the trip, arranged for a replacement, and sent her home. This is how ASA management really treats it's employees. Is growth worth 5 more years of that?

 

[e120pilot]

Sleepy,

Medeco is right, you need to settle down a little bit. You may very well be right about everything you say, but what are you suppose to do about it. Yeah, we all know that a lot can happen before they get here...but it's not worth freeking out over.

By the way, where has management said that we could have had all the jets if we had taken the extension? The only place I've heard that is on the ALPA message board, and the people who usually post on there are a little wacky if you ask me.

Just be happy we've got some airplanes coming, and we'll deal with the problems you insist will develop as they happen.

 

[sleepy]

Sleepy,

Medeco is right, you need to settle down a little bit. You may very well be right about everything you say, but what are you suppose to do about it. Yeah, we all know that a lot can happen before they get here...but it's not worth freeking out over.

By the way, where has management said that we could have had all the jets if we had taken the extension? The only place I've heard that is on the ALPA message board, and the people who usually post on there are a little wacky if you ask me.

Just be happy we've got some airplanes coming, and we'll deal with the problems you insist will develop as they happen.

I'm just a realist. I can't change that. I don't trust any airline management. I learned that the hard. All we can do is keep our eyes on the big picture, support our Union, and stick together.

 

[jumppilot]

I work for Chautauqua under a piss poor contract...I'll go count up my food stamps instead.

I began counting my food stamps last month, while I had 17 days off with less than 9 months senioirty....People on this board are right, I don't make enough money!!! I can't go golfing on every one of my days off! I have to limit it to 10!

By the way, did I mention that when I took the CHQ job I had an offer from Comair, ASA, Mesa, Horizon and Era? I decided to go with CHQ after learning how the wholy-owned versus contract carrier thing works. Looks like I made a good decision.

Oh, and for the people that don't get sarcasm, CHQ is the only job offer I had in sight, so like most of you (actually, all of you), I took it!

And I couldn't be happier.

 

[TWAER]

If I hear "raising the bar" one more time, I'll puke. WE RAISED THE BAR AT CHQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is all that matters. I don't care about "your bar" My bar is higher. I have two kids, nice 2300 sq ft. home, two car payments, and hey, I even can afford a vacation. Are there FO here, there, and everywhere who should make more? HELL YES. But you know what, any educated person who does their homework should know how much they are going to make as first year FO. If it is such a slap in the face for you, go get a job somewhere else. If you want to get rich, find another field. If you are like me and love to fly and have an excellent QOL, CHQ may be the place for you.

And quit giving me this BS about industry responsibily. When Comair went on strike, they did it for themselves and good for them. If we went on strike last summer, it would have been for the good of CHQ pilots.

 

[rjcap]

Sleepy is dead on target.

First of all, Comair is a much tighter run operation then ASA. To say ASA is recieving these aircraft over Comair due to better performance is ludicrous.

Second, You better believe that these 25 CRJ's will be used as a negotiation chip later in the year. The pilot contract negotiations have bogged down and will likely reach an impasse later in the year.

Hopefully the ASA pilot group will remain as steadfast as the Comair pilot group has.


Most importantly, all of this is dependent on the Delta mainline negotiations.


Has anybody heard anything about 300 - 500 Delta Captains putting in their early retirment papers in April or May ?????

 

[General Lee]

Yes, May 1st. That is the rumor. Due to ---Gatt rate being low (higher lump sum pay out), April 15th is Vacation pay out for year--(unused vacation will add to this year's FAE), and future pay cuts---(your retirement is based off of your 3 best years--not three last years).

IF the huge retirement actually happens, expect management to ask for relief from Dalpa. They will give it probably in the form of raising cap temporarily to cover people in training.

I don't know if that high number would be reached, but plenty are thinking about leaving. The only way those senior guys would get a raise is if they could get on the 777, and since we only have 8---it is limited. Most have already had their best 3 years.......

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[crjdxr]

I think this is being covered in another thread but does anyone think that the possible 30 (+/-) DoJets had any play in how the CRJ/ERJs were allocated?

 

[General Lee]

I love that avtar. Youzzza.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Has anybody heard anything about 300 - 500 Delta Captains putting in their early retirment papers in April or May ?????

That's a rumor, but the facts don't bear it out. I was at the council 44 LEC meeting today and listened to our R&I Committee Chairman state that as of today only 21 DAL pilots have submitted their paper work for an early out in May. While more may submit their paper work at the last minute, the number that have actually done so is only 21. Traditionally May has more early outs than any other months because of the vacation payout in April, the number will probably climb above 21, but it is no where near 300-500 at this time.

 

[Medeco]

Sleepy

Sleepy,

First, This is not a pissing contest, so dont take my next comments that way, just talking with a fellow brother.

I dont "hang with management types" as you say I just said I was around them enough to hear how they work.

Yes, I know that our VP of Air op's told a recurrent class that we will like the RFP announcement but we could have had all 45, he is a jerk and we all know it, including the guys I told you I know.

I have also heard about the FA stories, including that one. Just today I was called and told about an FA in DFW on probation who did not call back in a resonable amount of time and was fired on the spot, first time. ASA treats out FA's very poorly, I dont understand why this is so other than they are negotiating too.

I have heard that our grievences are up ten fold, and that management has said they will use the firing of pilots as negotiating capital during the contract process, that is truly sad if it is true and reading the Session by session updates on ALPA's web site I can begin to believe things like this are true.

I will and I believe most of our group will stand up for what is right when it comes to playing hardball in the end. I think part of their strategy is to scare us into thinking we will be fired on the spot when planes start breaking in outstations and block times increase and delays increase and so on, if it were to come to that.

The ASA/airline culture is way behind the times when it comes to dealing with your employees in a positive way, they still do it the old school way and it is too bad. There is no reason it is needed.

They will TRY to use the 25 against us, but I am confident out Rep's will laugh them off the table and have good responses.

I met a guy who just came back form 2 years of being fired by Scott Young, he won, and is suing for lots of money and will probably win.

If we can get ND, DB, CS, and a hand full of others out of the positions they are in and replaced with true professionals then I believe ASA will have better relations witht the pilot group and a lot more respect, these guys have no business being were they are, especially CS who is kissing up for the VP of flight ops position.

Anyway, I am not hanging with management, and I do like my job at ASA even with the fact that I will not be able to upgrade even after the 25 jets are on property, its not the end of the world and many guys at the top flying 777's and 767's spent 10 years or more without 4 stripes, the MTV generation likes instant gratification.

Fly safe, smile, and enjoy life the best you can,

Medeco

 

[General Lee]

FDJ2,

I heard that rumor from very high sources in ATL(in the CPO). I know it doesn't sound right either, and I don't know where they got that number, but the people that told me that were serious. We shall see.....During the last retirement (Sept 1st) the company was expecting 150 (as told to me by a 777 Check Airman) and they had 386.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[N813CA]

Today, our management finally announced the results we were told to expect around "mid-January" from the "Request For Proposal" (RFP) solicited by DCI late last fall.

Of the 45 aircraft offered during that RFP, Delta has announced that 13 Embraer aircraft will go to Chautauqua Airlines, 25 Bombardier CL-65's will go to ASA, and 7 Bombardier CL-65's will go to SkyWest Airlines.

Based upon established pay rates in current pilot contracts, each airlines' managements submitted their bids. In fact, no airline participating in the RFP offered any cut-rate "B" payscale; none offered any reduced crew costs below their negotiated rates; or below what currently exists in their respective current contracts.

We have said from the start that those 45 aircraft would go where they were originally scheduled to go, and we believe today that is what they did.

It is important to recognize that pilots do not decide how or where aircraft are distributed; managements decide, and, ostensibly, those decisions are based upon where those aircraft are expected to generate the most revenue.

As Randy said in today's message to all Comair people, ". . . we feel very good about the initiatives accomplished throughout the company over the last two years to reduce costs and improve operational reliability and customer service. We must continue this focus in the future."

We agree.

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2,

I heard that rumor from very high sources in ATL(in the CPO). I know it doesn't sound right either, and I don't know where they got that number, but the people that told me that were serious. We shall see.....During the last retirement (Sept 1st) the company was expecting 150 (as told to me by a 777 Check Airman) and they had 386.

Bye Bye---General Lee

General, according to the DALPA R&I Chairman, on the specific point of how many DAL pilots have actually submitted their retirement papers for an early retirement in May the number as of today was 21 early retirements. However, many more have made inquiries and may or may not opt for early retirement, but they have yet to actually drop their letter. There are quite a few fence sitters out there, I'm sure the number will climb. JMO, but with no BK on the horizon and apparently little to no effort by management to negotiate a mid contract adjustment, the driving factor will probably be the GATT rate.

 

[General Lee]

FDJ2,

I agree with you, I thought that number was high also. But, I heard this from several people that I know and trust in the ATL CPO--and are in HIGH places-----and I still thought the number was way too high---but they said it--not me. Take it easy....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sleepy]

Ok Medeco, I'll buy that.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Oh, even after ASA takes delivery of these aircraft, they can still be redistributed. We have no scope, we have no aircraft of our own, we have no flying of our own.

That was Duane Woerth's opinion at the Leadership conference. To quote fom one of our Rep's when they asked about scope at a Connection carrier.

He then went on to say that of the 42 airlines in ALPA, only 12 actually sell space, either seats or cargo space. The other 30 only provide "lift" either as codeshare or as cargo lift.

I asked Duane to clarify how this "brand scope" would work and referenced his statistics about 12 carriers having the "brand" and 30 of us providing the "lift". Specifically, I asked if the 30 would be at the table, or would the 12 do the negotiating on behalf of the 30? Duane answered that legally, only the 12 could do the negotiating and that "it would be illegal for the others to participate".

Now compare this to Delta management's opinion...

"Delta Air Lines will negotiate in good faith with whomever ALPA sends to the bargaining table as designated representatives..."

And you wonder why I send checks to the RJDC, where would we be without them?

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

Did you ask Duane what he thought of the RJDC mess? And, I still don't think you see the big picture here---you are so focused on ASA---which is understandable. The RJDC wants to allow regionals to get more of the flying---and/or larger airplanes. This would lower the amount of airplanes at a mainline carrier--and thus bring more lower paying jobs to the regionals--effectively lowering the number of higher paying jobs for pilots. Do you want 737s at ASA? Mesa might get them, and I bet the rates will $uck. They would $uck also at ASA compared to Delta. You want the ability to have more 70 seaters or 90 seat RJs---which would NEGATE the addition of more mainline aircraft, and NEGATE the neccesity to hire MORE at Mainline. People who get hired at Mainline usually make more than at the regionals---and that increases the chances of pilots making a great living. You guys at Comair and ASA will really never be able to make what we do at Mainline---and I am not bragging here. We would like to hire more of you (especially ASA guys) and you then you would be able to have a better chance at doing better monetarily. That is how it should work. Not bringing people down to lower wages, but rather bringing people up. The RJDC honchos are guys that know they wouldn't be able to be hired at a Major---either having DUIs, marks on their flying record, or something else that would disqualify them. Or, they "don't want to give up their weekends off" at the regionals and are too lazy to try to get hired. When we get our wages down (eventually) we should be the ones to get the 100 seaters (we will) and expand, and bring the ASA guys up after our furloughs return. That is what everyone should be fighting for--better wages and better quality of life--and you will find that at Mainline.

Bye Bye--General Lee