Retirement #'s

[Flopgut]

Bricktop: don't listen to Dan Roman. He's got no idea what he's talking about. You'll make it. And when you do, you will carry with you a sort of regard and respect that Dan Roman never has or will.

 

[Lampshade]

US Airways

Active Pilots: East - 2540, West - 1352, Total - 3892

Average age of widebody CA - 58.3, FO - 54.5

Year-East (active), West (active), Total, Active (age 65 only)
2013 - 158 (109), 48 (33), 206, 142
2014 - 206 (155), 43 (38), 249, 193
2015 - 183 (142), 54 (41), 237, 183
2016 - 223 (171), 48 (41), 271, 212
2017 - 237 (181), 64 (47), 301, 228
2018 - 254 (204), 52 (47), 306, 251
2019 - 256 (201), 76 (65), 332, 266
2020 - 240 (195), 67 (56), 307, 251
2021 - 246 (175), 67 (57), 313, 232
2022 - 201 (161), 66 (55), 267, 216

Totals-2204 (1694), 585 (480), 2789, 2174

 

[j-3]

Thank you Lampshade

 

[The Prussian]

I know you're being sarcastic, but you aren't too far from correct. Look, retirements did not stop. We've had almost 200 at CAL alone. Who do you think these guys/gals are that can retire and who do you think are left? You summed it up. We're halfway into this, what kind of personality is the 65 year old airline pilot going to have? Truth hurts.

OK, we'll have it your way...

Apparently, about half of us in this industry (minus those 200) have very poor spending habits, along with diseases, hosts of personality deficits, and character flaws. Amazing how they all (minus those 200) ended up in the left seat at the same time! The sooner "that half" of the industry (minus those 200) retires, the sooner we'll see these careers restored to their rightful owners...those who will display total class, selflessness, generosity, compassion and responsibility.

 

[Captzaahlie]

US Airways

Active Pilots: East - 2540, West - 1352, Total - 3892

Average age of widebody CA - 58.3, FO - 54.5

Year-East (active), West (active), Total, Active (age 65 only)
2013 - 158 (109), 48 (33), 206, 142
2014 - 206 (155), 43 (38), 249, 193
2015 - 183 (142), 54 (41), 237, 183
2016 - 223 (171), 48 (41), 271, 212
2017 - 237 (181), 64 (47), 301, 228
2018 - 254 (204), 52 (47), 306, 251
2019 - 256 (201), 76 (65), 332, 266
2020 - 240 (195), 67 (56), 307, 251
2021 - 246 (175), 67 (57), 313, 232
2022 - 201 (161), 66 (55), 267, 216

Totals-2204 (1694), 585 (480), 2789, 2174

Thanks a bunch for all that typing Lampshade that was exactly the
info I was hoping to see.....
I owe ya a cold one.:beer:
Z.

 

[Dan Roman]

Not to be personal as this is not but "Earned you say?" Please don't talk to me about "paying dues." This is a sole industry who rewards people NOT for hard work but for "timing". I/many have over 13 years and $100,000's invested in this career and are stuck in the bottom of the industry with nearly unlivable wages thanks to your generation's greed. Many of my generation were never as disgruntled or developed a "sense of entitlement" until the greedy soles who couldn't fund their lifestyles on $300,000 a year fought for longer careers to redeem their piss poor spending habits. There are elements of your career that were out of your control but unity and ball$ could have saved its downward spiral. I blame myself for choosing this career but I blame your generation of aviators for dragging this career to the trenches. You sold out your children's generation for your own. Hopefully my generation will hold onto their ball$ a little tighter and preserve what scraps we have left to devourer. Maybe my career choices were a mistake perhaps in time they will prove to be worthy. But either way I will continue to fight and make this a "livable" career since being "desirable" has been flushed. Who you see on this forum and who I am when sitting in the seat to your right are polar opposites. I am far experienced, educated, qualified, professional and passionate about my career. But everyman has his breaking point with disappointment and feelings of betrayal. I have reached mine. Despite what attitude I display on this board which I know to be BOLD I do respect those who have achieved their career goals. But regardless of your opinions I "HAVE" earned that seat unfortunately this industry does not reward hard work anymore.

Good post and I do feel for you. It use to be there were dozens of airlines, TWA, UAL, Braniff, American, Eastern, Western, Ozark, PSA, AirCal. Piedmont, Allegheny, Southern, North Central etc etc. A job with any of them was considered a good career, although if you weren't hired by age 32 you could forget an airline career. Now I believe it's about 50% of the domestic flying is done by contracters trying to outbid each other and not paying career type wages. It sucks, personally I can't believe scope has been weakened to the point it is at now. I think the initial thinking was mainline felt they were creating a lot of new jobs by allowing more feed from RJ's. New routes would be opened up and mainline would grow thanks to the feed and new jobs would be created flying these new RJ routes. Should have been a win/win deal but obviously it has morphed into something else and become the elephant that stuck it's nose under the tent. That said, the pendulum appears to be shifting, in this industry. It sounds to me like more and more airlines are potentially going to take back some domestic flying as the RJ operators appear to be consolidating and at some point sooner than later the industry is going to be hit with a LOT of retirements and a much stronger economy . I heard a recent statistic the AMR has more pilots over 60 than under 40.
But I have to call fowl on lumping all pilots flying past 60 as greedy and can't manage on 300,000 a year. Those guys flying past 60 are mostly pilots that lost most of the pension that was promised to them and took a huge pay cut through circumstances beyond their control. Sixty is not that old and if you retire you need a lot more in today's dollars than people realize, other wise inflation is going to kill you in your 80's. If you can go out at 60, great. But 65 is an option for everyone and it's a little ludicrous to be pointing fingers over it, no one knows were they will be 10 or 20 years down the road and none of use can count on anything, but the more options we all have the better. Also, no matter how strong those of us left with a pension may think that pension is, we all know anything can happen. There is not a single secure pension in the entire industry, the more any of us has in a 401k the better of we are.
Your comment about how you sound on here vs real life is so true about most of us. I think most of us on here are quite different in person than than how we sound by our posts. I would even bet if flopgut was on my jumpseat we would get along just fine.
The only thing I can definitively say about this industry is it has huge changes and has always been boom or bust, at some point the airlines that are left will hire like crazy. That time is not that far away, good luck.

 

[BrickTop]

Good post and I do feel for you. It use to be there were dozens of airlines, TWA, UAL, Braniff, American, Eastern, Western, Ozark, PSA, AirCal. Piedmont, Allegheny, Southern, North Central etc etc. A job with any of them was considered a good career, although if you weren't hired by age 32 you could forget an airline career. Now I believe it's about 50% of the domestic flying is done by contracters trying to outbid each other and not paying career type wages. It sucks, personally I can't believe scope has been weakened to the point it is at now. I think the initial thinking was mainline felt they were creating a lot of new jobs by allowing more feed from RJ's. New routes would be opened up and mainline would grow thanks to the feed and new jobs would be created flying these new RJ routes. Should have been a win/win deal but obviously it has morphed into something else and become the elephant that stuck it's nose under the tent. That said, the pendulum appears to be shifting, in this industry. It sounds to me like more and more airlines are potentially going to take back some domestic flying as the RJ operators appear to be consolidating and at some point sooner than later the industry is going to be hit with a LOT of retirements and a much stronger economy . I heard a recent statistic the AMR has more pilots over 60 than under 40.
But I have to call fowl on lumping all pilots flying past 60 as greedy and can't manage on 300,000 a year. Those guys flying past 60 are mostly pilots that lost most of the pension that was promised to them and took a huge pay cut through circumstances beyond their control. Sixty is not that old and if you retire you need a lot more in today's dollars than people realize, other wise inflation is going to kill you in your 80's. If you can go out at 60, great. But 65 is an option for everyone and it's a little ludicrous to be pointing fingers over it, no one knows were they will be 10 or 20 years down the road and none of use can count on anything, but the more options we all have the better. Also, no matter how strong those of us left with a pension may think that pension is, we all know anything can happen. There is not a single secure pension in the entire industry, the more any of us has in a 401k the better of we are.
Your comment about how you sound on here vs real life is so true about most of us. I think most of us on here are quite different in person than than how we sound by our posts. I would even bet if flopgut was on my jumpseat we would get along just fine.
The only thing I can definitively say about this industry is it has huge changes and has always been boom or bust, at some point the airlines that are left will hire like crazy. That time is not that far away, good luck.

Dan I hope you are right. We have seen the pilot workforce at Majors shrink nearly 50% at some carriers and NO capacity is being replaced as retirements accelerate. It leads me to believe mass retirement is a fallacy dreamed up by flight schools and desperate pilots stranded in the bottom of their lists looking for hope. If there is not CAPACITY replacement the only movement and growth will be at the Regional level, which will birth the $40,000 yr airline captain and that my friend will be then end for me.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Regional level, which will birth the $40,000 yr airline captain and that my friend will be then end for me.

All the career regional pilots will brag about $100k and 18 days off a month. They will defend their mediocrity and lack of opportunity using every excuse in the book.

And the senior at the majors will tell everyone to pay their dues and if it was not for guys like us everyone else would not have anything to look forward too. They are the I've got mine crowd who pull up the ladder behind themselves.

And the majority of us, the regional pilots hoping for more, the junior and middle senior at the majors hoping to keep the jobs and get the pay back are just the complainers who get the shaft and empty promises.

Management has divided and conquered the pilot with ALPA's helped while the passengers buy a commodity.

 

[BrickTop]

All the career regional pilots will brag about $100k and 18 days off a month.

Keywords "CAREER REGIONAL". Sadly it is where many who once had ambition of a livable career will make their livelihoods.

 

[contrail67]

So if United and Continental merge it will be 2018 before they start hiring-great

A narrow body order to replace the parking of the 737's and/or a "buyout" of the senior folks will change that 2018 outlook ....ALOT.

Expect it.