• NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

Retirement #'s

Flopgut

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2005
Posts
3,627
Total Time
15k
Bricktop: don't listen to Dan Roman. He's got no idea what he's talking about. You'll make it. And when you do, you will carry with you a sort of regard and respect that Dan Roman never has or will.
 

Lampshade

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2002
Posts
485
Total Time
8000
US Airways

Active Pilots: East - 2540, West - 1352, Total - 3892

Average age of widebody CA - 58.3, FO - 54.5

Year-East (active), West (active), Total, Active (age 65 only)
2013 - 158 (109), 48 (33), 206, 142
2014 - 206 (155), 43 (38), 249, 193
2015 - 183 (142), 54 (41), 237, 183
2016 - 223 (171), 48 (41), 271, 212
2017 - 237 (181), 64 (47), 301, 228
2018 - 254 (204), 52 (47), 306, 251
2019 - 256 (201), 76 (65), 332, 266
2020 - 240 (195), 67 (56), 307, 251
2021 - 246 (175), 67 (57), 313, 232
2022 - 201 (161), 66 (55), 267, 216

Totals-2204 (1694), 585 (480), 2789, 2174
 
Last edited:

The Prussian

Stecknadelkopf
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Posts
671
Total Time
25K+
I know you're being sarcastic, but you aren't too far from correct. Look, retirements did not stop. We've had almost 200 at CAL alone. Who do you think these guys/gals are that can retire and who do you think are left? You summed it up. We're halfway into this, what kind of personality is the 65 year old airline pilot going to have? Truth hurts.
OK, we'll have it your way...

Apparently, about half of us in this industry (minus those 200) have very poor spending habits, along with diseases, hosts of personality deficits, and character flaws. Amazing how they all (minus those 200) ended up in the left seat at the same time! The sooner "that half" of the industry (minus those 200) retires, the sooner we'll see these careers restored to their rightful owners...those who will display total class, selflessness, generosity, compassion and responsibility. :D
 

Captzaahlie

My kind of FOD!
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Posts
1,564
Total Time
18k ?
US Airways

Active Pilots: East - 2540, West - 1352, Total - 3892

Average age of widebody CA - 58.3, FO - 54.5

Year-East (active), West (active), Total, Active (age 65 only)
2013 - 158 (109), 48 (33), 206, 142
2014 - 206 (155), 43 (38), 249, 193
2015 - 183 (142), 54 (41), 237, 183
2016 - 223 (171), 48 (41), 271, 212
2017 - 237 (181), 64 (47), 301, 228
2018 - 254 (204), 52 (47), 306, 251
2019 - 256 (201), 76 (65), 332, 266
2020 - 240 (195), 67 (56), 307, 251
2021 - 246 (175), 67 (57), 313, 232
2022 - 201 (161), 66 (55), 267, 216

Totals-2204 (1694), 585 (480), 2789, 2174


Thanks a bunch for all that typing Lampshade that was exactly the
info I was hoping to see.....
I owe ya a cold one.:beer:
Z.
 

Dan Roman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2004
Posts
2,815
Total Time
19000
Not to be personal as this is not but "Earned you say?" Please don't talk to me about "paying dues." This is a sole industry who rewards people NOT for hard work but for "timing". I/many have over 13 years and $100,000's invested in this career and are stuck in the bottom of the industry with nearly unlivable wages thanks to your generation's greed. Many of my generation were never as disgruntled or developed a "sense of entitlement" until the greedy soles who couldn't fund their lifestyles on $300,000 a year fought for longer careers to redeem their piss poor spending habits. There are elements of your career that were out of your control but unity and ball$ could have saved its downward spiral. I blame myself for choosing this career but I blame your generation of aviators for dragging this career to the trenches. You sold out your children's generation for your own. Hopefully my generation will hold onto their ball$ a little tighter and preserve what scraps we have left to devourer. Maybe my career choices were a mistake perhaps in time they will prove to be worthy. But either way I will continue to fight and make this a "livable" career since being "desirable" has been flushed. Who you see on this forum and who I am when sitting in the seat to your right are polar opposites. I am far experienced, educated, qualified, professional and passionate about my career. But everyman has his breaking point with disappointment and feelings of betrayal. I have reached mine. Despite what attitude I display on this board which I know to be BOLD I do respect those who have achieved their career goals. But regardless of your opinions I "HAVE" earned that seat unfortunately this industry does not reward hard work anymore.

Good post and I do feel for you. It use to be there were dozens of airlines, TWA, UAL, Braniff, American, Eastern, Western, Ozark, PSA, AirCal. Piedmont, Allegheny, Southern, North Central etc etc. A job with any of them was considered a good career, although if you weren't hired by age 32 you could forget an airline career. Now I believe it's about 50% of the domestic flying is done by contracters trying to outbid each other and not paying career type wages. It sucks, personally I can't believe scope has been weakened to the point it is at now. I think the initial thinking was mainline felt they were creating a lot of new jobs by allowing more feed from RJ's. New routes would be opened up and mainline would grow thanks to the feed and new jobs would be created flying these new RJ routes. Should have been a win/win deal but obviously it has morphed into something else and become the elephant that stuck it's nose under the tent. That said, the pendulum appears to be shifting, in this industry. It sounds to me like more and more airlines are potentially going to take back some domestic flying as the RJ operators appear to be consolidating and at some point sooner than later the industry is going to be hit with a LOT of retirements and a much stronger economy . I heard a recent statistic the AMR has more pilots over 60 than under 40.
But I have to call fowl on lumping all pilots flying past 60 as greedy and can't manage on 300,000 a year. Those guys flying past 60 are mostly pilots that lost most of the pension that was promised to them and took a huge pay cut through circumstances beyond their control. Sixty is not that old and if you retire you need a lot more in today's dollars than people realize, other wise inflation is going to kill you in your 80's. If you can go out at 60, great. But 65 is an option for everyone and it's a little ludicrous to be pointing fingers over it, no one knows were they will be 10 or 20 years down the road and none of use can count on anything, but the more options we all have the better. Also, no matter how strong those of us left with a pension may think that pension is, we all know anything can happen. There is not a single secure pension in the entire industry, the more any of us has in a 401k the better of we are.
Your comment about how you sound on here vs real life is so true about most of us. I think most of us on here are quite different in person than than how we sound by our posts. I would even bet if flopgut was on my jumpseat we would get along just fine.
The only thing I can definitively say about this industry is it has huge changes and has always been boom or bust, at some point the airlines that are left will hire like crazy. That time is not that far away, good luck.
 

BrickTop

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Posts
554
Good post and I do feel for you. It use to be there were dozens of airlines, TWA, UAL, Braniff, American, Eastern, Western, Ozark, PSA, AirCal. Piedmont, Allegheny, Southern, North Central etc etc. A job with any of them was considered a good career, although if you weren't hired by age 32 you could forget an airline career. Now I believe it's about 50% of the domestic flying is done by contracters trying to outbid each other and not paying career type wages. It sucks, personally I can't believe scope has been weakened to the point it is at now. I think the initial thinking was mainline felt they were creating a lot of new jobs by allowing more feed from RJ's. New routes would be opened up and mainline would grow thanks to the feed and new jobs would be created flying these new RJ routes. Should have been a win/win deal but obviously it has morphed into something else and become the elephant that stuck it's nose under the tent. That said, the pendulum appears to be shifting, in this industry. It sounds to me like more and more airlines are potentially going to take back some domestic flying as the RJ operators appear to be consolidating and at some point sooner than later the industry is going to be hit with a LOT of retirements and a much stronger economy . I heard a recent statistic the AMR has more pilots over 60 than under 40.
But I have to call fowl on lumping all pilots flying past 60 as greedy and can't manage on 300,000 a year. Those guys flying past 60 are mostly pilots that lost most of the pension that was promised to them and took a huge pay cut through circumstances beyond their control. Sixty is not that old and if you retire you need a lot more in today's dollars than people realize, other wise inflation is going to kill you in your 80's. If you can go out at 60, great. But 65 is an option for everyone and it's a little ludicrous to be pointing fingers over it, no one knows were they will be 10 or 20 years down the road and none of use can count on anything, but the more options we all have the better. Also, no matter how strong those of us left with a pension may think that pension is, we all know anything can happen. There is not a single secure pension in the entire industry, the more any of us has in a 401k the better of we are.
Your comment about how you sound on here vs real life is so true about most of us. I think most of us on here are quite different in person than than how we sound by our posts. I would even bet if flopgut was on my jumpseat we would get along just fine.
The only thing I can definitively say about this industry is it has huge changes and has always been boom or bust, at some point the airlines that are left will hire like crazy. That time is not that far away, good luck.

Dan I hope you are right. We have seen the pilot workforce at Majors shrink nearly 50% at some carriers and NO capacity is being replaced as retirements accelerate. It leads me to believe mass retirement is a fallacy dreamed up by flight schools and desperate pilots stranded in the bottom of their lists looking for hope. If there is not CAPACITY replacement the only movement and growth will be at the Regional level, which will birth the $40,000 yr airline captain and that my friend will be then end for me.
 
Last edited:

luckytohaveajob

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Posts
1,114
Total Time
1+
Regional level, which will birth the $40,000 yr airline captain and that my friend will be then end for me.

All the career regional pilots will brag about $100k and 18 days off a month. They will defend their mediocrity and lack of opportunity using every excuse in the book.

And the senior at the majors will tell everyone to pay their dues and if it was not for guys like us everyone else would not have anything to look forward too. They are the I've got mine crowd who pull up the ladder behind themselves.

And the majority of us, the regional pilots hoping for more, the junior and middle senior at the majors hoping to keep the jobs and get the pay back are just the complainers who get the shaft and empty promises.

Management has divided and conquered the pilot with ALPA's helped while the passengers buy a commodity.
 
Last edited:

contrail67

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Posts
954
Total Time
15,000
So if United and Continental merge it will be 2018 before they start hiring-great


A narrow body order to replace the parking of the 737's and/or a "buyout" of the senior folks will change that 2018 outlook ....ALOT.

Expect it.
 

wuberoo

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Posts
48
Total Time
2
Is there any numbers for the cargo carriers w/ retirees and also regional carriers -would they have any numbers to be added to these majors?
 

flyboy9967

Active member
Joined
Sep 27, 2002
Posts
33
Total Time
10000
One man took it upon himself to sell out the rj's, it was done on his own accord. It was not brought to the pilots and they were not able to vote on it. Also there was thing called, "BANRUPTCY" a process where labor has no leverage. Wasn't CAL the leader of the pack that lobbied the ATSB not to give UAL the loan in 2003 and forced the bankruptcy? Food for thought.


I've said this before and of course didn't get a response. I'm guessing you are talking about Delta. Was Delta in bankruptcy when Comair got its first RJ???
 

Metrojet

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Posts
378
Total Time
16500
Should have been more specific, no that my question is no longer on the same page....

I was looking for a breakdown showing how many guys are retiring each year

like:

(examples of course)

2010 - 75
2011- 120
2012- yada
2013- yada
2014-ya



I don't care if it's just east or west or both, preferably both.
I remember hearing that big numbers would be retiring by 2015, something like 30-40% and was curious if this was really true.
Thx in advance,
Z.


The "big numbers would be retiring by 2015" or sooner is probably gonna happen on the East side - may I ask why your asking? Does it have to do with something called "Nic"?

Metrojet
 

Captzaahlie

My kind of FOD!
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Posts
1,564
Total Time
18k ?
The "big numbers would be retiring by 2015" or sooner is probably gonna happen on the East side - may I ask why your asking? Does it have to do with something called "Nic"?

Metrojet

No actually it only has to do with my decisions on giving up a really great home based job to accept a recall to airways. I'm getting more time off than I ever had during the last 20 years of my flying. Now I'm getting an opportunity to do heavy wide-body international flying (if I survive the 76 type that I'm in the middle of.) and have no commute. The icing on the cake is having the company pull surprise stuff like giving me a bunch of xtra days off just prior to training to get stuff situated at home!
I got based out west as a newbie for airways due to the back log of 190 training that was going on and really have no dog in the fight. (FWI I know some really great people on both the West & East sides) Ironically I have more time on furlough with airways than I do working for them! lol :bawling:
(don't know if I should laugh or cry about that!)
 
Top