Results in Iraq

[wms]

This is copied from Baseops.net


This is a letter from Ray Reynolds, a medic in the Iowa Army National Guard, serving in Iraq:

"As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you.

This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing.)

* Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.

* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.

* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.

* The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.

* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.

* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.

* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.

* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.

* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.

* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.

* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.

* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.

* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.

* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.

* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.

* An interim constitution has been signed.

* Girls are allowed to attend school.

* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there, and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will.

We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts.

So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my e-mail address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight.

If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, e-mail this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening."

Ray Reynolds, SFC
Iowa Army National Guard
234th Signal Battalion

 

[cynic]

Did we find the nuclear arsenal, chemical weapons and ties to terrorists that were THE JUSTIFICATION given for going to war?

The Iraqi people are welcoming us with rocket-propelled grenades?

Think about this….

Would you rather fight to the death or live under an Islamic rule and accept its value system? Is it possible that the Iraqi people don’t WANT a democracy? The debate as to which system is better wholly aside; what if the people of that country don’t want a Democracy? Then I suppose we’d have to FORCE a system of government, a way of life, a set of values on those people.

That is possible; we did it to the Japanese in WWII. Can we stomach what is required to do that?

http://www.holocaust-history.org/~rjg/deaths.shtml
Killed by the Western Allies.

Japanese civilian dead:
2 million5

Hiroshima:
about 138,890 according to Gilbert. 5

Nagasaki:
about 48,857according to Gilbert.5

Tokyo bombings:
"On May 24, more than four hundred American bombers dropped 3,646 tons of bombs on central Tokyo, and on the industrial areas in the south of the city. More than a thousand Japanese were killed."

Tokyo, March 1945: "83,793 Japanese civilians killed. That was the official minimum death toll; later, 130,000 deaths were 'confirmed' by the Japanese authorities."

Nagoya, Osaka, Kobe, Yokohama, Kawasaki March-May 1945:
"more than a quarter of a million"

The Iraqi people will submit to our way of life when we make it clear that we are willing to exterminate the population in the country if they fail to completely surrender. That includes every man, woman and child that lives in Iraq.
If you think anything short of that will change their minds guess again.

The Japanese had a ruler that was a military and religious leader wrapped up in one.
The Japanese thought that disobeying an order from a commander was to disobey an order from God.
The Japanese thought it was better to die killing Americans than live.
The Japanese thought a warrior spirit, a willingness to fight longer, was all that was needed to win; “The paper tiger will crumble”

Does any of this sound familiar.

We can place the argument as to weather or not it was right to go to Iraq aside. It’s too late now. The question now is; do we pull out and show them we are a paper tiger or do we adopt the policy that those that fail to report insurgents, harbor them or tolerate them should be killed.

If you think anything short of MILLIONS dead in Iraq will get us what we want I’d suggest reading up a bit on history.

 

[jarhead]

cynic

There is a large caveat that you have omited from your history lesson about WW II. The U.S. was attacked by Japan. We were under attack by them, and we did what was necessary to win that war with the Japanese empire.

That said, I will agree with much of what you said. We were not attcked by Iraq, and we went to war there under bogus premises. There are no WMD, and the people don't seem to want an occupying force on their homeland.

We should leave, and let Iraquis fight and die for their homeland, and not U.S. soldiers.

 

[TonyC]

cynic,

You make a good case for strategic nukes.

 

[wms]

Relax!

I'm not starting a debate on whether or not we should've gone. Just passing on some info from someone who, unlike us and everyone else with an opinion, has been there.

Sadam, the largest persecutor of Muslims in history is gone.
According to those who have been there, the majority are glad things are changing, just impatient at the pace.
The one's who are rebelling were benefiting in the old system and miss the good ole days of being torturers and rapists.

There is good that is going on regardless of personal opinion and the press. And to ignore the good altogether is to dishonor those who pay the price for it while we sit in the AC and waste time on the internet.

 

[Catbird]

Don't believe any of the Japanese "die instead of surrender B.S.". My father and uncles fought and died in the Pacific. After the Marines saw what the Japs did to Americans and Aussies in the march to Bataan it was a "Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword". The U.S didn't take many prisoners in the march to Japan. Cut the heads off and stuck them on poles to drive home the point. The Japs should consider themselves lucky the US didn't bomb Japan into the stone age. Had a Jap walk up and ask me in the MIA airport which way to gate 23b? I told him."You didn't have a hard time finding Pearl Harbor, go ask Sakoko over there".

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Normally, I don't post on these sorts of topics but something needs to be said.

Iraq had attacked us. Unless you weren't watching for it, many US fighters enforcing the ceasefire post '91 had been shot at. It was routine for US fighter/bombers to attack Iraqi ground installations after being fired upon.

This is not to mention that they released less information about their WMD than I have on flying in my apartment. Want to guess where the VX gas that was found in a spoiled attack in Jordan came from?

There is a difference between the US attacking Iraq and attacking the Vatican. One is an openly beligerant nation that was trying to create Weapons of Mass Destruction to attack the US and the other has the Pope who is the leader of all Roman Catholics.

Plus, some people have to learn the hard way that f*cking with the US isn't a good way to score political points. You would have thought after Afganistan, Iraq would have smartened up a little and given in.

PEACE, n. In international affairs, a period of cheating between two periods of fighting.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Don't believe any of the Japanese "die instead of surrender B.S.". My father and uncles fought and died in the Pacific. After the Marines saw what the Japs did to Americans and Aussies in the march to Bataan it was a "Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword". The U.S didn't take many prisoners in the march to Japan. Cut the heads off and stuck them on poles to drive home the point. The Japs should consider themselves lucky the US didn't bomb Japan into the stone age. Had a Jap walk up and ask me in the MIA airport which way to gate 23b? I told him."You didn't have a hard time finding Pearl Harbor, go ask Sakoko over there".

You have issues...

 

[Jmmccutc]

cynic,

you made a good point there were alot of people killed durring WWII, but what else happened? oh that's right we helped with medical supplies, food, water and the general rebuiling of that country...much the same as we are currently doing in iraq...sure the united states has the power to crush our enemies, but we also have the compassion to get them back on their feet once the mission has been accomplished...

regards,
jmmccutc

 

[cynic]

It's too late to discuss going to Iraq. We are there; right or wrong.

My point is that we have to be willing to use nukes, napalm carpet bombings or chemical weapons and in short, slaughter millions of men, women and children to force the Iraqi people to submit to our way of life, our value system and our political values.

If we destroy any hope of eating, sleeping, even living on the part of the Iraqi people then they will understand that the choice is simple. Live under our rule or DIE.

And I agree, after we destory the Iraqi people we will rebuild then (just as we did for the Japanese) in an image we like.

Still want to do it? Can you stomach that reality?

A politician who tells you otherwise is lying or just plane oblivious.

 

[jarhead]

Jedi_cheese

First, I will concede that Saddam was/is a real despot. There are lots of ‘em out there. That said, the US was not attacked by Iraq when they were shooting at U.S. and British aircraft that were over THEIR territory. You site that we were enforcing the U.N. no fly zone. You do know don’t you, that the no fly zone was established by the U.S. selling and negotiating that situation to the U.N.? Why were their no other U.N. countries’ aircraft beyond the U.S. and British war planes patrolling to keep Iraqi airplanes from flying in and over Iraqi territory? Where were the other U.N. country’s aircraft? This war was sold to the U.S. population under false pretenses; WMD. Now that that has been proven bogus, by people of such stature as David Kay and others, we now say we had to do it to “liberate” Iraq. The big problem seems to be that the Iraqi populace does not seem to want to be liberated. They cheer and dance when U.S. Humvee’s are blown up and U.S. military personnel are killed and maimed. They seem unwilling to join the fight for their own liberation. They will not fight and die for a western style democracy. Why should our people’s blood drench the sands of Iraq?

As for your statement as to why don’t we make a “guess” as to where the VX gas came from in Jordan, that’ the same kind of B.S. that got the U.S. into the war in Iraq in the first place; bad guesses by George Tenet and the CIA. Best not to guess; real good to KNOW the facts.

 

[wms]

My point is that we have to be willing to use nukes, napalm carpet bombings or chemical weapons and in short, slaughter millions of men, women and children to force the Iraqi people to submit to our way of life, our value system and our political values.

Being free doesn't mean living like an american. It means being able to decide whether to or not. I don't advocate forcing our way of life or government on anyone. Only helping them have the opportunity to choose what they want. That's what freedom is.

Being the most successful and influencial free nation, I feel it's our responsibility to help others be free if they want.

 

[jarhead]

wms

A noble thought. If the people of the Peoples Republic of China, or the people of the Democratic Republic of North Korea wanted to have freedom, how would you suggest that the U.S. help free them? You state it is our "responsibility" so I am just wondering.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Jarhead

VX is the deadliest gas on the planet. 1/50th of a drop is enough to kill a grown man. It doesn't break down and it sticks to most surfaces. It has no known use outside of chemical warfare due to it's toxicity. The Kay report specifically said that Iraq gave its stuff to Syria. We are unable to tell what was given to Syria but due to educated guesses based on what we have found in Iraq, Syria got a vast bounty of WMD before we attacked Iraq. This stuff doesn't exactly grow on trees and requires a sponsor state to make it, so the question is where did this stuff come from and is the status quo worth the risk?

The no fly zone was enforced by US and British aircraft. The no fly zone was spelled out in the '91 peace agreement. The US and British were the only ones that cared enough to enforce the treaty.

Hitler started off small too by re-militarizing the Rhineland in 1936 too. The UK and France had the power to push him out had they wanted to, but they didn't. Three years later, France and the UK would go to war that would end after six years of fighting and several hundred million dead...

 

[jarhead]

So you're stating that Syria had VX that was given to Jordan???

 

[wms]

Good question. I'm not the brain trust that makes the plans, or I would be doing something better than sitting reserve in a crashpad. But if they wanted it and asked, then I would support them. It doesn't always require dropping bombs, remember the cold war? But it requires action, and the action would be determined by the situation and the help we're actually able to give.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Jordan is one of our allies (sorta, we bribe them pretty well). A few terrorists tried to attack Jordan with VX gas. VX gas is a pain in the ass to get due to it's toxicity and the supplies and equipment that you need to acquire to make it. Thus you get a nation state involved. This leads to the assumption that a nation state gave this stuff to the terrorists.

Jordan doesn't have many country enemies because it is understood as being bribed and is a fairly useful go-between for the US, Israel, and the various arab states. Two exceptions: Iran and Syria. Syria shares a vary large border with Jordan and sponsors all sorts of terrorism. Iran usually doesn't do this sort of thing in other arab nations (they tend to do things a bit quieter). Also, Syria has been implicated in the attempt by various countries intel.

But Syria isn't a huge WMD producer. They tend to go for lower tech WMD (mustard gas and whatnot) that is easier to store and manufacture. So exactly did this VX come from? Iraq had a much higher level of sofistication in it's WMD...

Iraq may not have been totally guilty on the WMD claims, but that doesn't make them innocent.

 

[Jellyfish]

I wonder how Ray Reynolds would reply

The engineers in southern Iraq are lucky to only have to explain why the power fails once a day. Their colleague in Baghdad—Mohsen Hassan, the technical director for power generation at the ministry of electricity—has to explain to visitors why there is no power, frequently for over ten hours a day, in the capital city which houses a quarter of Iraq’s population.

It is clear from conversations with Iraqis and reports from delegations recently returned from Iraq that the daily lives of the Iraqi people have not improved in the 10 months since Saddam Hussein was overthrown. In many cases, things are even worse with no improvement in sight. A case in point is the dismal conditions of Iraq's hospitals. Even at the “best” hospitals, like Baghdad’s Central Teaching Hospital for Children, it is reported that 80 percent of the patients leave with infections they did not have when they arrived. The wards are filthy, the sanitaion shocking, the infections lethal, and sewage drips from the roof above cots of premature babies. The following articles document the current conditions in Iraq’s hospitals. Is this what hospitals in “liberated” countries are supposed to look like?

 

[jarhead]

A question about VX.....I honestly do not know.

I have been under the impression, (right or wrong) that VX was invented a long time ago. Was it not used in World War 1 by the Germans in Europe?

 

[jarhead]

Just found the answer to my own question on "Ask Jeeves" on the Internet. It was the British that invented VX, and sold that secret to the U.S. in 1958, in exchange for some nuclear U.S. technology. Here is part of the information, pasted below:

"Although VX gas was developed in the British chemical warfare laboratory at Porton Down, the British traded their secret with the Americans for information on thermo-nuclear weapons in 1958. The Americans went into full-scale production of VX gas in 1961, but are now attempting to destroy stockpiles.

Only the U.S.A., France and Russia are known to possess VX. It hasn't yet been used to its fullest potential, because retaliation would probably be with nuclear weapons. VX nerve agent is such noxious material, that as Nicholas Cage says in the film "The Rock", "It is one of those things we wish we could disinvent".