Response Time

[rajflyboy]

Its safe to say that gunfyter is doing some dreaming on this new 135 reg on rest!!

 

[gunfyter]

http://www.airlinepilots.com/fatigue/Fatigue022.htm​

RESERVE AND STANDBY ASSIGNMENTS​

Current regulations do not specifically cover the issue of reserve time and standby duty. Within the air transportation industry two types of generic reserve assignments have developed. ​

One type, usually referred to as "standby reserve," is essentially the same as a duty period, and as discussed below would be treated as duty for duty period limitation and rest requirement purposes. The other type, here called "reserve time" is not considered part of a rest period and is not considered part of a duty period and therefore would be dealt with separately under this proposal. Proposed § § 121.477 and 135.265 provide reserve assignment requirements.​

Under the proposal a standby duty period must be scheduled in accordance with proposed § § 121.473, 121.475, or 135.263. A standby duty ends when the duty period associated with a subsequent flight assignment ends or the flight crewmember is relieved from standby duty for a scheduled rest period.​

​

Standby duty periods are assigned because the air carrier believes that some time within that period the flight crewmember will be needed for a flight assignment and must report for flight assignment within less than 1 hour of being notified. Standby duty also includes time when a flight crewmember is required to report to and remain at a specific facility (e.g., airport, crew lounge) designated by a certificate holder. Usually flight crewmembers are assigned to standby duty at the airport. In addition, since the industry has indicated that they treat standby as duty, this proposed definition should not impose any additional burdens on certificate holders. It is because of the momentary anticipation of a flight assignment, which prevents a pilot from planning for adequate rest, that standby assignments are treated as duty periods.​

The proposed standby duty period would be treated as a duty period that is associated with flight, regardless of whether the flight crewmember is ever assigned to flight time during that standby duty period or not. Standby duty periods would be scheduled in accordance with proposed duty period limitations, flight time limitations, and rest requirements. A standby duty period commences when the flight crewmember is placed on standby duty and ends when the flight crewmember is relieved of duty, whether that duty is standby or flight. Following standby duty, the flight crewmember must be scheduled for and must receive the same amount of rest as he or she would receive if he or she accumulated flight time, even if there is no actual flight time.​

Reserve time is a period of time when a flight crewmember is not on duty but nonetheless must be available to report upon notice for a duty period. During reserve time a flight crewmember typically goes about his or her off duty routine, obtaining rest as needed during each 24 hour period. Reserve time is not considered part of a rest period, is not considered part of a duty period, and is not considered assigned time. Reserve time ends when the crewmember is released, the crewmember is notified of a future duty period assignment and released from all further responsibility until the report time for that assignment, or the crewmember reports for a duty period. The certificate holder must allow the flight crewmember a minimum of 1 hour to report.​

Often flight crewmembers are on reserve for days at a time and are given 10 or more hours notification prior to a duty period assignment. However, there are times when a flight crewmember is given fewer than 10 hours notification and may not be completely rested. Some flight crewmembers arise early in the morning and may have been awake for many hours at the time they receive notification of an evening flight. These flight crewmembers may not have an opportunity for a complete rest period before the flight assignment. The same may be true of a flight crewmember who does not awaken until the middle of the afternoon and receives fewer than 10 hours notification of a duty period which starts after midnight.​

Since it is difficult to predict when an individual flight crewmember sleeps and when he or she awakens, no attempt has been made in the proposal to correlate the amount of notice a flight crewmember should receive with the time of day. Rather, the emphasis is placed on the flight crewmember's receiving enough notice to provide an opportunity for rest before the duty period assignment. If a flight crewmember receives at least 10 hours notice there would be enough time for the flight crewmember to be fully rested before reporting for a duty period of 14 hours. However, under proposed § § 121.477(b) and 135.265(b), when flight crewmembers receive fewer than 10 hours notice for a duty period assignment, there is a reduction in the length of that duty period. ​

While it could be possible for a flight crewmember to receive 10 hours rest before being placed on reserve and then given 10 hours of notification in order to serve a 14-hour duty period, the FAA believes that efficient crew scheduling will minimize the possibility of this happening. Table 3 shows for each proposed amount of notification time the proposed corresponding duty period limitation.​

...​

Under either reserve time assignment option, the flight crewmember must be notified of which option has been selected before the beginning of the reserve time assignment.​

Although NASA recommends a predictable and protected 8-hour sleep opportunity (2.6.2), the FAA believes that the above described options are practical and in most instances will provide at least an 8-hour rest opportunity. Either the flight crewmember is provided an opportunity for a full 10-hour rest period or, in the case of a short notice, the flight crewmember's duty period is limited, or the flight crewmember is able to plan each day with the certain knowledge there will be a minimum 6-hour period for undisturbed rest. Thus, these options would protect against excess fatigue without eliminating the objective of the reserve system and without placing a significant economic burden on the industry.​

There have been a number of complaints stating that in some cases pilots were unable to obtain enough rest because they were given a reserve assignment immediately following a duty period and then were called for duty before they had received an adequate rest. While under these proposed rules such a practice would be a violation because of the requirement for a minimum rest period between duty periods, the FAA has included in proposed § § 121.477(b) and 135.265(b) a requirement that a flight crewmember must be given a 10-hour rest period before beginning a reserve time assignment. Sections 121.483(c) and 135.271(c) state that required rest periods can occur concurrently so this proposed requirement may not require an additional rest period.​

The FAA believes that both of these methods of handling reserve time assignments would provide more flexibility, would be less costly for certificate holders, and would be more likely to ensure adequate rest than the current rules. Under the lookback provision in the current rules, for instance, a flight crewmember on reserve could not take a flight assignment unless he or she had a scheduled rest period in the previous 24 hours. There have been situations in which certificate holders have professed experiencing difficulties in implementing rest requirements for flight crewmembers on reserve. Recognizing this, the FAA has developed this proposal. However, if this proposal on reserve time assignments is not issued as a final rule, the FAA intends to ensure that the current rule, as interpreted, is being correctly implemented.​

 

[rajflyboy]

Proposed is the key wording.
When it becomes reality then we can all stop dreaming.

I do hope this new proposal becomes a reg. It is great news to all of us who are in the corporate aviation world. No more 24/7 reserve stuff would be nice. Lets keep the fingers crossed.

Gunfyter >>> Thats a cool Avatar you got there.

 

[gunfyter]

The reason it is proposed is to CLARIFY. The current rules require what I have been saying but POI's and FSDOs have FAILED to enforce.

Thats why this last line from the FAA once again....

if this proposal on reserve time assignments is not issued as a final rule, the FAA intends to ensure that the current rule, as interpreted, is being correctly implemented. (why aren't they doing so now?)

As interpreted means as the FAA Chief Counsel has interpreted... NOT YOUR POI or local FSDO.

The FAA representative who is in charge of this rewrite of FAR 135, is the SAME PERSON who was in charge of final issue of FAR part 91 K.... That should give you an idea of what the Reserve and Duty language in the upcoming Rewrite of 135 will look like.

The Gang of Thieves representing the Fractional providers were very SHOCKED with the Rest and Duty language in 91K. So much so that it looks like ALL Fractional companies plan on operating under FAR 135. The very thing they tried to avoid by operating Part 91 and proposing the new rule FAR 91K.

135 operators are about to receive the Same Shock. Monthly meetings on Rest and Duty for the rewrite of FAR 135 goes on every month in Dallas.

The BS is about to end

The 135 operators are scared and have their own Gang of Theives trying to influence the final rules now.
see:
http://www.enews-letter.com/12all/p_v.php?mi=126&nl=2&ei=jerry%40navillus-design.com

Excerp:

"...An additional working subgroup, focused exclusively on contentious FAR 135 flight-duty-rest issues, will have an "extra" meeting in Dallas 10-12 August -- with RACCA participants in attendance. This group's recommendations will be presented to the ARC at the August meeting...."

Believe me they are VERY CONCERNED! Concerned you might be properly rested when you fly and it will cost them money.

 

[rajflyboy]

Time will tell I guess.

Thanks for all your research. You must be a research committee guy!

 

[gunfyter]

Thanks to the former Executive Jet Aviation MEC member and current BBJ PIC who petitioned the FAA 13 years ago.


from http://www.nemspa.org/flt-duty.html

On November 25, 1991, Mr. Thomas T. Gasta, a captain on
turbo-jet aircraft, petitioned the FAA to amend the definitions
in part 1 of the FAR to include a definition of rest that would
ensure that a rest period is free from restraint and free from
responsibility for work. Mr. Gasta's particular concern is to
ensure that reserve time is not considered rest.

The FAA has considered each of these petitions for
rulemaking in preparing this NPRM.

So,

If you can read, thank a teacher. If you can read while in Rest without having to worry about being ASAP'd on a popup 135 charter flight... Thank a Netjets pilot.

 

[pilotyip]

Reserve time non-rest/non-duty

Exactly what the reg says, reserve in not rest. What are we talking about. Is it gun guy wants it to read Reserve is duty? That would be change in the regs.

91.1057 (a) Reserve status ......remains within a reasonable response time of the aircraft as agreed between the flight crewmember and the program manager. The flight crewmember maintains a ready means (i.e. pager or telephone watch) whereby the flight crewmember may be contacted by the program manager. Reserve status is not part of any rest or duty period.

If this is the sample of the proposed change in the 135 Regs, then it almost the same thing that is going on right now. We just have new hires sign an agreement as a condition of employment. An agreement that states they will be in the building in 25 minutes from being altered in a reserve status and they live within 7 miles of the field while in a reserve status. To my understanding that would fully, meet the requirements of Part 91K. As I stated early on in this thread there is a twilight zone of a period that is non-duty and non-rest, it is called Reserve status in 91K

 

[gunfyter]

What you failed to realize is that you cannot be in Reserve status indefinitely.

While in Reserve you can do as you have written above. Lets say you have been in Reserve for 4 hours. An IMMEDIATE trip pops up. You NOW have 10 hours to complete the trip.

Or you have been in reserve for 4 hours. A trip for tomorrow pops up. You may be contacted by the company and assigned the trip and 10 hours of REST before the trip.

Or you are in Reserve. 14 hours passes and no Trip pops up. You must be place in ASSIGNED REST. You are TOAST you cannot FLY again until you have received 10 hours of Rest during which the Company MAY NOT contact you and you have no responsibility to contact the company or respond to calls or pages.

Bottom line is if you are Flying a 135 trip. You must be able to LOOK BACK and find 10 hours of REST. Rest that does NOT include time you were held in Reserve. You have 14 hours (NOT OF DUTY) but of time from the END OF REST to complete your 135 assignment. REST ENDED as soon as Reserve begins.

 

[pilotyip]

Not what the 91.1057 (a) says

You are wrong, and BTW without management you would not be flying an airplane for a living.

 

[gunfyter]

Yes that IS what it says!

First lets review what REST means...
(8) Rest period means the time period free of all restraint
or duty for a certificate holder and free of all responsibility
for work or duty should the occasion arise. "Free of all
restraint" and "free of all responsibility" would include, but
not be limited to, accepting phone calls, being required to carry
a beeper, or being required to contact the air carrier. If a
flight crewmember is not serving in assigned time, reserve time,
standby duty or a duty period, that crewmember would be in a rest
period.

So as you can see, Reserve time does not count as rest.

Once you are on reserve for 14 hours logic and mathematics tell you that it is IMPOSSIBLE to FLY Part 135 flights. Because you look back and you do not find 10 hrs of REST.

Why keep someone on Reserve for 14 hours then? ... In order to contact that pilot to Notify him of his next rest period and start of Duty or Reserve.

Not only do you need 10 hours of Rest to be ON DUTY... You need 10 hours of REST to be in RESERVE! That is if the purpose of the Reserve is to accept a FAR 135 flight!


Once You have been in reserve for 14 hours... The only assignment you can accept is ANOTHER 10 hours of REST before you fly a 135 trip. You may NOT go out on an immediate popup trip... or any trip until you receive another assigned 10 hours of REST.