Reserves at ASA can pick up open time now!

[aircombat]

Yes, those sound like reasonable goals!
Many of us fail to understand the company imperative of 4 day trips vs 3 day trips of similar credit. Many of us would prefer to come in and really work for 3 days then have the ability to hold more days off...as we used to be able to do (as well as chose from a wide variety of trips from naps to day lines to 2, 3, 4 day trips). Why does company prefer the 4 day trips (as well as high threshold months with low credit trips) instead of more productive 3 day trips? BECAUSE THEY WANT US DUTIED IN! The efficiency of the trip isn't the top priority for them, it's that if we're dutied in we're just one step away from being on reserve.

sounds like a good reason to be paid by daily duty time and not flight time.

 

[aircombat]

I really don't know anything about ASA's PBS or what "vacation low" is, but I do know that negotiating in public by telling everyone what you value and what you'll give up is very, very stupid!

It's no secret that pilots are weak.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree. I think everybody would agree that senior guys flying a total of four days of the month with just one week of vacation is not reasonable or cost efficient. I'm sure we'd all like to be on the receiving end of that pork, but no company can survive like that. We should ALL be paid well for a hard day's work; any other outcome will not be sustainable.

....See it is all about "ME"....Is it any wonder that we don't negotiate as one....Screw you....

 

[JoeMerchant]

just thinking we could negotiate Vac Low for the other improvements such as higher credits, rigs, productive pairings etc

I don't think so...screw you...

 

[JustaNumber]

....See it is all about "ME"....Is it any wonder that we don't negotiate as one....Screw you....

Joe, do you actually believe that a regular pilot getting paid for 75 hours while only having to work for 10 because he has a week of vacation is reasonable and fair? That a company with this rule will be competitive in the industry, and will not end up like Comair? It appears that you know you are the beneficiary of some SWEET pork, and you are throwing a temper tantrum at the thought of losing that which you do not deserve. Otherwise you would be able to debate this reasonably and logically.

Furthermore, telling multiple forum members to "screw you" is impolite to say the least, and I'm sure is a violation of the forum rules. Please act like a professional.

 

[OCP]

Good thing the transition and process agreement doesn't allow for arbitration at any point during negotiations then!

But when we have an agreement between both asa and express that is presented to the company and argued just like any contract right? I may be wrong I haven't actually looked into it.

 

[Jackie Moon]

I am with joe on this and I almost never agree with him. Vac low is off the table. I don't think we can get anything and I mean anything that would make me willing to give up vac low. I have had to work the days right before and right after my vacation in the past. That would be a huge concession. Don't think it will happen? I can tell you from personal experience that during line completion they did this all the time. I am very junior and I will not give this up. Setting the credit line value to 65 only shaves 10 hours off guarantee and was a big part of us voting in pbs. The last thing I want is to have to build my line up to 90 hours on a vacation month. The way I see this anyway is we will give something up trying to fix other issues. It will be gone and the other issues will end up just as bad as they were before. We always have huge loopholes in our contracts and the company wont sign anything without them. Always a lot of the company may or will try or unless it causes an cancellation.

 

[Freebrd]

I don't think so...screw you...

wow great attitude there bud, if u don't think the Co is coming after Vac Low you're dreaming

 

[aircombat]

Joe, do you actually believe that a regular pilot getting paid for 75 hours while only having to work for 10 because he has a week of vacation is reasonable and fair? That a company with this rule will be competitive in the industry, and will not end up like Comair? It appears that you know you are the beneficiary of some SWEET pork, and you are throwing a temper tantrum at the thought of losing that which you do not deserve. Otherwise you would be able to debate this reasonably and logically.

Furthermore, telling multiple forum members to "screw you" is impolite to say the least, and I'm sure is a violation of the forum rules. Please act like a professional.

Comair is hurting because they are the only regional that doesn’t have a binding contract with Delta making it easy to reduce on short notice. Being owned by Delta was everything. Pilot pay had nothing to do with that.
I can ask you do you want to become like Mesa?
Pilot pay has essentially no effect on the survivability of an airline.

 

[Nevets]

But when we have an agreement between both asa and express that is presented to the company and argued just like any contract right? I may be wrong I haven't actually looked into it.

I'm not sure what your asking. All I know is that no one can force us to negotiate anything.

 

[OCP]

I'm not sure what your asking. All I know is that no one can force us to negotiate anything.

At some point between the company and the union if nothing is getting done it will move to a point of arbitration that an independent person will decide what they feel is right. And that is usually done with what is average in the industry. PCLs 900 rates, before the latest contract, were decided that way.
That is the same thing that happens with our combined seniority list if our unions can't agree. We have no say whatsoever.

 

[Nevets]

At some point between the company and the union if nothing is getting done it will move to a point of arbitration that an independent person will decide what they feel is right. And that is usually done with what is average in the industry. PCLs 900 rates, before the latest contract, were decided that way.
That is the same thing that happens with our combined seniority list if our unions can't agree. We have no say whatsoever.

Read the transition and process agreement. There will be no arbitration whatsoever in this contract negotiation. No one cam force anything upon us other than ourselves in a ratification vote.

 

[Freeze]

I'm not pissed at ALPA, I'm pissed about our TOTALLY INCOMPETENT management issuing YET ANOTHER apology about getting caught surprised/unprepared with our staffing issues.

They REFUSE to staff properly, insist that we ARE staffed properly and then say "Oops...our bad...... looks like we are short staffed, but we are taking FULL responsibility for this. It's too late to hire now, so work harder and get us through this summer...BTW SAFETY is our number one priority"

second year in a row, and I'm positive it will happen this way next year as well.

The union and half the pilot groups say "well, at least they are taking responsibility"


That's why I'M pissed

You're pissed at what?

I thought the pilots were the Union. Don't fly it if you don't want the money. The whole idea is to provide incentive to those who are willing to work extra so some aren't forced into it. Sounds like a great idea to me. That just gives you more time on Flightinfo breathing free air.

 

[enuffalready]

I am with joe on this and I almost never agree with him. Vac low is off the table. I don't think we can get anything and I mean anything that would make me willing to give up vac low. I have had to work the days right before and right after my vacation in the past. That would be a huge concession. Don't think it will happen? I can tell you from personal experience that during line completion they did this all the time. I am very junior and I will not give this up. Setting the credit line value to 65 only shaves 10 hours off guarantee and was a big part of us voting in pbs. The last thing I want is to have to build my line up to 90 hours on a vacation month. The way I see this anyway is we will give something up trying to fix other issues. It will be gone and the other issues will end up just as bad as they were before. We always have huge loopholes in our contracts and the company wont sign anything without them. Always a lot of the company may or will try or unless it causes an cancellation.

agreed... one of the reasons I voted for PBS was the vacation LOW. No way that one goes away.

 

[russtgol]

ASAholes!!