Reserve KC-135 question

[chawbein]

Can anyone tell me how many hours one can get per year as a brand new KC-135 copilot? I am trying to figure out how long it will take to upgrade to AC. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JayDub]

I try not to post on the military board, but here goes. I believe this translates to a person of civilian-only experience. If not, flame away. I apologize in advance if you feel I've over stepped my bounds.

Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? Worrying about it won't change the time frame.

Besides that, even I can tell you any answer you get will be a total guess. It will depend on the unit, who they support, not to mention the ever-present possibility a hot spot should flare up into a war. Worse yet, what if there is a sudden cut in funding along the lines of the Clinton years? Waaaaay too many possibilities to factor in.

I hated it when others told me, but it turned out to be true. Hang tight, and do the very best job you can and it'll happen soon enough. In fact, during your first 100 hours of signing for the aircraft, you are a sh*t magnet (at least in my experience of every aircraft I upgraded in). In that time, you'll kind of wish you didn’t have to make all of those danged decisions. Especially if Your right seater is worrying about upgrade before his time, and making the experience a total drag for all concerned. Just enjoy getting paid the same amount (except for differences in rank, of course) as the guy in the left seat (a military anomaly), and learn as much as you can.

I mean this in only the most respectful way. Don't take offense, just buckle down and accomplish the mission at hand; pass the board, pass UPT, and become the best danged right seater that unit ever saw.


Respectfully,

JayDub

 

[TankerPuke]

Can you plan on being a BUM? If so you can expect to upgrade in about 1 1/2 years. If you can't BUM (too many, unit won't support) plan on an upgrade in 2-3 years which translates to about 250 (non-bum) to 500 (bum) hours a year. This it what I have seen with my tanker comrades. Of course, if some $hit head causes us to get activated again you will upgrade MUCH sooner

PUKE

 

[chawbein]

Thanks for the information. I've got months before my package even goes before the reserve board. I'm not necessarily putting the cart before the horse, I'm just exceedingly bored at work and have LOTS of time to be curious about any number of things.

 

[Cruise157]

Like JayDub said, it depends on a lot of things as far as how long it will take to upgrade. FACT: PACAF requires 1000 hours total time (including stud hours) and AMC requires 800 before sending you off to Altus. Not sure about USAFE or reserve/guard.

Now, how you get the required hours is a big deal. If you're in a unit where you deploy for 90 days at a time and you rack up hours but not experience, chances are your unit will not send you until your training flight thinks you're ready, regardless of hours. Same for if war breaks out and you end up racking up your hours in a matter of months - they're not going to send you.

As an average copilot in an active duty unit, I'll fly anywhere from 15 to 60 hours a month. More if the unit is short of personnel or if I deploy, less if I'm busy doing other stuff.

Bottom line, expect it to take 1.5 to 2 years after you finish MQT to be "ready" to upgrade.

 

[TonyC]

I try not to post on the military board, but here goes. I believe this translates to a person of civilian-only experience. If not, flame away. I apologize in advance if you feel I've over stepped my bounds.

Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? Worrying about it won't change the time frame.

Besides that, even I can tell you any answer you get will be a total guess. ...

Gee, JayDub. Haven't you ever wondered about anything?

Like how many airplanes your company will be buying in the next 5 years...

Or like what new crew bases might open up next year...

Or like what new cities you might be serving next month...

Or like what FA's might be on your flight next week...

Haven't you ever wondered????


That's all this kid is doing, wondering out loud. Sure, he's not a A320 Captain like yourself, with no worries in the world. He's just got an exciting future ahead, a life to be lived, a treasure chest of memories to fill up. Why should he be left with the memory of a sour puss airline Captain telling him to, basically, just shut up and fly - - you'll upgrade when you upgrade!

I wonder how your stock did yesterday... (mine went down)

 

[Skyrunner]

Can anyone tell me how many hours one can get per year as a brand new KC-135 copilot? I am trying to figure out how long it will take to upgrade to AC. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not a 135 bubba, but I think I can offer some advice on how to upgrade quickly.

1. Try to limit your "other time". I think the regs states that you are limited to 100 hours of other time towards upgrading. Maybe it has changed. I haven't checked lately. If you have a choice between two flights, pick the one that logs the least other time.

2. Be the "YES pilot" in regards to the scheduler. If you are consistently saying yes to all things asked of you, the schedulers get into a habit of going to you first for missions.

3. Try to be the best, safest and most reliable copilot in the squadron. You'll find it amazing how many guys/gals will want to fly with you.

Take care and hope this helps,

SR

 

[chawbein]

Good information, good advice, points well taken. Thanks again!

 

[JayDub]

Gee, JayDub. Haven't you ever wondered about anything?

Like how many airplanes your company will be buying in the next 5 years...

Or like what new crew bases might open up next year...

Or like what new cities you might be serving next month...

Or like what FA's might be on your flight next week...

Haven't you ever wondered????


That's all this kid is doing, wondering out loud. Sure, he's not a A320 Captain like yourself, with no worries in the world. He's just got an exciting future ahead, a life to be lived, a treasure chest of memories to fill up. Why should he be left with the memory of a sour puss airline Captain telling him to, basically, just shut up and fly - - you'll upgrade when you upgrade!

I wonder how your stock did yesterday... (mine went down)

Tony C,

When I tell you this, you probably won't believe me, but what the heck. I have no idea how many aircraft JetBlue has right now, but I know it's more than 53. I know we have 100 orders and 100 options for each airframe (maybe more on the Airbus).

Whatever you hear will be our next crew base is wrong. A lot is going to change in that time. Same story with new cities, etc. I remember being in initial and reading the press release about LGB. Just about everybody, including instructors, were just floored! Believe it or not I just show up and do what they tell me to do, when I am supposed to do it. I could care less what might happen around the corner; all I am going to do is give myself heart problems. There's enough to do in the here and now (now, if I can just find my copy of the latest revision of limitations to study ).

The context in which I took his comments is different than you, I guess. I took what he wrote kind of like to say "ok, I've got my slot, I don't want to be some icky co-pilot, when do I make AC?" Now maybe I read too much into it, I don't know. But I pretty much felt he was asking the question in the same vein as the countless number of folks on the general board that say "I don't want to instruct, how can I get into a jet now with my 263 hours of 'hard' time?"

It just doesn't work like that, and worrying about it won't change it. Ask any of the guys on the panel at FedEx right now how worrying about when the next class will run (to finally get them off the panel) has improved their QOL. Again, it'll happen when it happens. At least they don't have the same worries as the guys at UsAirways right now, wondering if furloughs will go back 17 years instead of 16. Now that is something to be concerned with.

If you are speaking of "my" stock as JetBlue, then it looks like yesterday JBLU came up a little to 22.52.

Stock Quotes

If you meant the majority of my holdings, at least yesterday I didn't lose any more. This has been a bummer month. Of course, having 1000 shares of DAL at 9.40 ain't gonna help.

BTW, do I really sound old??? I am 33.

Respectfully,


JayDub

 

[chawbein]

JayDub -

It's all good dude. My post seemed a little spacy anyways....

I'm so amped about the incredible turn my life is about to take that I can hardly keep myself from reading all the gouge out there about the Tweet, Texan, T-1, and KC-135 again. I've read just about every UPT journal out there at least once. I just want to serve and fly. Right seat, left seat, cot in the back; I'll enjoy every minute of it (probably not literally) and be proud that I have such an incredible opportunity.

 

[TonyC]

Tony C,

The context in which I took his comments is different than you, I guess. I took what he wrote kind of like to say "ok, I've got my slot, I don't want to be some icky co-pilot, when do I make AC?" Now maybe I read too much into it, I don't know. But I pretty much felt he was asking the question in the same vein as the countless number of folks on the general board that say "I don't want to instruct, how can I get into a jet now with my 263 hours of 'hard' time?"

Maybe I read too much into his post, but, yea, I'd say we took it differently. I see a good kid with a hopeful future that's excited about where he's going, and curious about what's around the corner. I didn't read worry, or discontent, or disdain for his lot in life.

At some point in time, I'm sure you exhibited a sliver of curiosity, too. I just can't believe that you woke up one day in the left seat of a JetBlue Airbus and had not a single thought about how you got there. Surely, there must have been at least one single act of investigation on your part to get you where you are today. I think this kid is investigating just the same.

It just doesn't work like that, and worrying about it won't change it. Ask any of the guys on the panel at FedEx right now how worrying about when the next class will run (to finally get them off the panel) has improved their QOL. Again, it'll happen when it happens. At least they don't have the same worries as the guys at UsAirways right now, wondering if furloughs will go back 17 years instead of 16. Now that is something to be concerned with.

I agree 100% that worry will change nothing. (Well, it might change things for the worse by precipitating health problems induced by stress, but you know what I mean.) Hope, on the other hand, can have a very POSITIVE influence. Without hope, those guys on the panel might see no reason to stick around. Without the hope of a bright future, this kid might never have pursued a path of UPT and KC-135's. I'm not particularly keen on dashing somebody's hopes just for the sport of it.

BTW, do I really sound old??? I am 33.

Honestly, yes. Your reply sounded more like the "Shut up and put up" refrain that we might hear from an old sourpuss that doesn't have any grandkids. Sorry if I took it wrong.

 

[JayDub]

Tony C and Chawbein,

No, I don't mean to dash anyone's hopes at all, I just want to make sure there is a dose of realism put in there. Oh, I remember all too well the elation of getting my first instructor gig, first jet job, etc. But then again, had I followed my dream, I'd be furloughed right now. That's the main crux of what I am saying; things change and you need to roll with the punches.

If you look around, far too few that have reached their goals in this business stick around to return a little of what they got. Those that stick around generally do so because they want to "mentor" others. Sometimes being a "mentor" (for the lack of a better word) is to make sure you don't get too far ahead of yourself. If no one else has ever told you life isn't fair, then by gawd, I will. So be it, but to say any less would make me dishonest with myself.

I'd be a bold-faced liar if I told you some great plan got me to the left seat of an Airbus. Actually what got me here was a series of mis-calculations and back-fired plans. I was merely waiting on a "real" job when the best thing that ever happened to me came along (professionally, anyways).

In the mean time of all those years, I kept my nose to the grind stone and enjoyed the flying. If all else fails, when the poo-poo really stinks, enjoy the flying. If you do that, you are guaranteed to enjoy the ride, no matter what.

I know all too well what it's like to be jazzed. Just don't forget there is a lot of work to do in the mean time. Enjoy this feeling you have now, there really is nothing better (again, professionally speaking). Things may never be what you anticipate, but if they are not, make one promise to yourself; be the hardest working S.O.B. in whatever peer group you are part of. It may not get you into the left seat of an Airbus, but you'll know you earned it, no matter where you end up.

Tony C,

This may sound odd, but thanks for standing up for the kid when you thought I was merely trying to build myself up. Too often on these boards no one has the balls to stand up for what they believe. You did, and I appreciate that.

I in no way meant to pee on his parade, but merely to make sure there was some balance in his perspective. If that makes me an assh*le, that's cool. I just don't want someone to make the same mistakes I did. In my path, early on, had I asked this question in my old jet charter job, I'd have been marked for the rest of my career because it would seem I was only there to get qualified to move onto an airline job. I know, corporate and military are apples and oranges (thank God, for the military folks), but they are both real small communities where the smell of a fart can last a real long time.

Now then, where is my Geritol? I need it since there are no Grandkids to hassle .

Take care.

Respectfully,

JayDub

 

[Eagleflip]

JayDub said:

BTW, do I really sound old??? I am 33.

He just looks old...trust me...

 

[TonyC]

I in no way meant to pee on his parade, but merely to make sure there was some balance in his perspective. If that makes me an assh*le, that's cool.

No, I wouldn't go THAT far. Just grumpy-sounding!

I just don't want someone to make the same mistakes I did. In my path, early on, had I asked this question in my old jet charter job, I'd have been marked for the rest of my career because it would seem I was only there to get qualified to move onto an airline job. I know, corporate and military are apples and oranges (thank God, for the military folks), but they are both real small communities where the smell of a fart can last a real long time.

And perhaps that's why you and I took a different approach to the answer. I would be suspicious of anyone in the tanker community that was NOT anxious about upgrading. I can't speak for the Reserves, and I guess I can't really speak for tankers, either, but I know in the RC-135 community I was in, EVERYONE was anxious to updgrade, EVERYone knew the order in which EVERYONE arrived into the squadron, we all kept track of who went to upgrade last, when the last upgrade class started, and when the next upgrade class was scheduled. The same held true for Instructor Upgrades. Getting extra hours and "other" hours wasn't a concern for us since we had way more hours for our longevity than our tanker counterparts. In fact, we often had as many hours going through AC upgrade as the tanker instructor, so our calculations were based more on how many of us are there, and how many upgrade slots does the squadron get this year. And will we happen to be standing in the right place at the right time when some other unit can't fill an upgrade slot at the last second and we get to jump in and fill it.

Anyway, some of the details were different, but the process and attitude were pretty much the same. Every Copilot was an Aircraft Commander in training.

Now then, where is my Geritol? I need it since there are no Grandkids to hassle

I hear they keep you young!

 

[JayDub]

He just looks old...trust me...

With friends like that...


Tony C,

Thanks for the informative posts.

Chawbein,

Congrats on the sponsorship. Knock 'em stiff!

JayDub