Reserve Component Commitments

[Heywood Jablomi]

Just a word of advice from a dude who's been there. If you are looking for a job in commercial aviation and also have a military Reserve (or Guard) commitment, DO NOT put it on your resume or discuss it with your interviewer. Provide them your DD214, and that's all! The Uniformed Services Employment & Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA) prohibits any type of discrimination against you for serving in the Guard or Reserve; however, this law really only helps you once you've been hired. The HR folks at these carriers are very hip about the law and very discrete about the way in which they discriminate. I don't care if you're a flag officer or the commander of a flying unit, they won't want you because 1) you'll have monthly drill commitments as well as Additional Flight Training Periods (AFTPs) and 2) you stand a good chance of being mobilized and deployed (15 months if your Army, 6 months for Navy/Marines, an afternoon for the Air Force). It seems very unscrupulous to do this type of thing to those who serve, but money and the bottom line are EVERYTHING to these air carrier types. There are reservists and Guardsmen who do get hired, but many more don't, especially these days.

Feel free to PM me if you think you've experienced this. I like to keep track of this type of practice.

 

[Mamma]

They don't have a problem with mil reserves at Alaska, JBLU or SWA. At Alaska, despite management's many shortcomings, they treat mil reserves well. I hear SWA and JetBlue are pretty good to their mil reserves also.

Just a word of advice from a dude who's been there. If you are looking for a job in commercial aviation and also have a military Reserve (or Guard) commitment, DO NOT put it on your resume or discuss it with your interviewer. Provide them your DD214, and that's all! The Uniformed Services Employment & Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA) prohibits any type of discrimination against you for serving in the Guard or Reserve; however, this law really only helps you once you've been hired. The HR folks at these carriers are very hip about the law and very discrete about the way in which they discriminate. I don't care if you're a flag officer or the commander of a flying unit, they won't want you because 1) you'll have monthly drill commitments as well as Additional Flight Training Periods (AFTPs) and 2) you stand a good chance of being mobilized and deployed (15 months if your Army, 6 months for Navy/Marines, an afternoon for the Air Force). It seems very unscrupulous to do this type of thing to those who serve, but money and the bottom line are EVERYTHING to these air carrier types. There are reservists and Guardsmen who do get hired, but many more don't, especially these days.

Feel free to PM me if you think you've experienced this. I like to keep track of this type of practice.

 

[JungleJett]

No problems here...my company rocks when it comes to mil folks.

Maybe it is just you? You seem like a real winner...

 

[Heywood Jablomi]

No problems here...my company rocks when it comes to mil folks.

Maybe it is just you? You seem like a real winner...

I'm sure life is sweet at Go Jet!

 

[JungleJett]

I'm sure life is sweet at Go Jet!

Not even close.......

 

[Cecil]

you stand a good chance of being mobilized and deployed (15 months if your Army, 6 months for Navy/Marines, an afternoon for the Air Force).

Afternoon for the Air Force...That was too funny!
Cecil

 

[GCD]

I think there is less of that going on at the majors now than in the past because of the current public attitudes toward veterans and the heat put on by ESGR.

However, I can tell you pre-war, this pracice was rampant at the majors, but not so much at the regionals because of their need to fill seats pre-2001. However, once hired, I know the regionals tried to violate every law there is on the books to violate Reservists and Guardsmen's rights to keep them from taking mil leave. Post Gulf War, I won a judgement against a Delta Connection carrier because they violated my right. This was the day of paper checks, and it gave me great satisfaction when the DO handed me a paper check for my back pay.

Here's what happened: I bid specific days off to do my drills without having to take mil leave. The first of my days off Crew Sched junior manned me to fly a trip. They called me at the flight facility, but I told them I bid those days off to drill. Crew Sched deducted those days from my pay, which is illegal, and the rest is history. ESGR helped me, because ALPA had no clue at that time.

I unsucessfully interviewed at a big blue major about ten years ago. All of the technical questions went well. Personality check by the HR person seemed OK, but the military question came up. The two twenty-something looking pilots in the interview asked me why I would still be in the Reserve after 20 years? Did I feel insecure being away from the military by giving it up to fly with XXX (illegal question, by-the-way, but how does one prove it was asked)? And then this statement: Well, we see military guys are OK, but they sometimes have a hard time doing things our way.

I thought that I addressed each question and the final statement with a satifactory response, but you can't tell me there wasn't an anti-military aura in that room, on that particular day. By the way, there were two AF astronaut candidate types who interviewed right after me. None of the three of us were hired in that round of interviews.

No sour grapes on my part. I'm happy. I am just testifying that it did happen ten years ago. My career went on to be well inspite of the one rejection. My current employer is very military friendly at this time, but I didn't work there pre war, so I can't address that question.

 

[RedDogC130]

for the record..the Guard does not have a service commitment...I found this out the hard way but in fact there is no regulation in the Guard for a service commitment.

 

[GCD]

RedDog,

There is no Guard Regulation for service obligation. It is a DoD regulation and DoD Directive. If you need to know it, I happen to work at Human Resources Command.

 

[RedDogC130]

Well I got out after 2 years of flying after doing research and found there was no regulation. They told me I had a commitment and I said...prove it...they could not...I did have a Lt.Col in the unit who had my back during it because he knew I was right...was not the most popular guy in the unit during that time...but I got what I wanted

I got back in after a 1 1/2 of not flying but that was for job security reasons

 

[JungleJett]

Well I got out after 2 years of flying after doing research and found there was no regulation. They told me I had a commitment and I said...prove it...they could not...I did have a Lt.Col in the unit who had my back during it because he knew I was right...was not the most popular guy in the unit during that time...but I got what I wanted

I got back in after a 1 1/2 of not flying but that was for job security reasons

So you flew the Herk for two years and then punched? And then got back in so you could have some paycheck security?

 

[hindsight2020]

Well I got out after 2 years of flying after doing research and found there was no regulation. They told me I had a commitment and I said...prove it...they could not...I did have a Lt.Col in the unit who had my back during it because he knew I was right...was not the most popular guy in the unit during that time...but I got what I wanted

I got back in after a 1 1/2 of not flying but that was for job security reasons

You get fries with that too?.....

 

[Heywood Jablomi]

for the record..the Guard does not have a service commitment...I found this out the hard way but in fact there is no regulation in the Guard for a service commitment.

I think you are refering to an Active Duty Service Obligation (Army term, ADSO) for initial or follow on aircraft qualification. If so, your state may not be able to hold your feet to the fire, but I believe the service involved (Army or Air Force) can keep you in the IRR for the obligatory time if they desire.

Many's the time guys told me I was foolish for keeping active with the Guard and Reserve. They told me you could make a weekend's drill pay by picking up an extra trip, and didn't have to risk going to war, or put up with the BS of the service. A lot of those guys got furloughed in the past few years. A few years ago, a friend of mine who flew C141s in the AF ('81 -'89) and was a captain at a major airline asked me if I thought they would let him back in the AF Reserve for another 12 years, just to drill for points. He said the airline had completely destroyed his retirement and he had no prospect of medical coverage.

The moral of the story is that things change. Don't burn your bridges. And, as we used to say in the Army, "Don't live it up if you can't live it down."

 

[SIG600]

you stand a good chance of being mobilized and deployed (15 months if your Army, 6 months for Navy/Marines, an afternoon for the Air Force).

Afternoon for the Air Force...That was too funny!
Cecil

Tell that to my Viper buddies that are on day 180 in Balad, or the Hog guys on month 7 in Bagram. Jack off.

 

[RedDogC130]

Tell that to my Viper buddies that are on day 180 in Balad, or the Hog guys on month 7 in Bagram. Jack off.

I can see the 180 in the g/r but not the 7 months...never heard of a unit unvol for that long...Am I missing something.

 

[RedDogC130]

I think you are refering to an Active Duty Service Obligation (Army term, ADSO) for initial or follow on aircraft qualification. If so, your state may not be able to hold your feet to the fire, but I believe the service involved (Army or Air Force) can keep you in the IRR for the obligatory time if they desire.

Many's the time guys told me I was foolish for keeping active with the Guard and Reserve. They told me you could make a weekend's drill pay by picking up an extra trip, and didn't have to risk going to war, or put up with the BS of the service. A lot of those guys got furloughed in the past few years. A few years ago, a friend of mine who flew C141s in the AF ('81 -'89) and was a captain at a major airline asked me if I thought they would let him back in the AF Reserve for another 12 years, just to drill for points. He said the airline had completely destroyed his retirement and he had no prospect of medical coverage.

The moral of the story is that things change. Don't burn your bridges. And, as we used to say in the Army, "Don't live it up if you can't live it down."

That is why I got back in. I thought about it and it was worth it. The only reason I left before is because I lived out of state from the unit and keeping the airline gig and flying at the unit to stay current was not working out. Live and learn I guess. But I have a good deal for now and do not have to commute to either, so we will see where it leads.

 

[SIG600]

I can see the 180 in the g/r but not the 7 months...never heard of a unit unvol for that long...Am I missing something.

High demand, small community would be my guess. I'm not up to speed on USAF lingo to make any more of an educated statement.

 

[JungleJett]

I know plenty of AF types who have seen their fare share of the desert and mountains. To make such a statement is not only ignorant, but disrespectful.

 

[slacker]

That is why I got back in. I thought about it and it was worth it. The only reason I left before is because I lived out of state from the unit and keeping the airline gig and flying at the unit to stay current was not working out. Live and learn I guess. But I have a good deal for now and do not have to commute to either, so we will see where it leads.

How did you get another unit to hire you? Quitting like that would have black-balled you in a bunch of units.

 

[JungleJett]

How did you get another unit to hire you? Quitting like that would have black-balled you in a bunch of units.

Yup....

What happened to service before self?

 

[pilotgolfer]

Yup....

What happened to service before self?

You're talking about RedDog. He was just bragging that he made 108K on 2nd year pay without per diem and how it would be beneficial for UAL to liquidate.

It's all ME, ME, ME with him.

 

[RedDogC130]

Yup....

What happened to service before self?

It is service before self not before my family.

 

[RedDogC130]

How did you get another unit to hire you? Quitting like that would have black-balled you in a bunch of units.

Well it obviously does not. Many people leave for many reasons. I left for mine. I know guys at the unit hiring me and they know why I left my previous one and had no problem with it. When you get a real flying job outside the military...you tell me if it works for you..if it does great...if it does not then it does not. I did my share of deployments so it was time to pursue my real job...does that clear it up a bit for you.

 

[RedDogC130]

You're talking about RedDog. He was just bragging that he made 108K on 2nd year pay without per diem and how it would be beneficial for UAL to liquidate.

It's all ME, ME, ME with him.

your an idiot....it was part of a post asking about flying hours and credits.... I guess it is about me....and all the other guys who posted about hours and credits...I just did the math for those that did not want to do the research.....As for the United liquidate...re-read the post....It is a reality...it is me or him and I would rather it be him....if you disagree let me know

 

[RedDogC130]

Next problem with my posts???? I will be here all week....buy 1 ticket get 2 free

 

[pilotgolfer]

your an idiot....it was part of a post asking about flying hours and credits.... I guess it is about me....and all the other guys who posted about hours and credits...I just did the math for those that did not want to do the research.....As for the United liquidate...re-read the post....It is a reality...it is me or him and I would rather it be him....if you disagree let me know

Red Dog,

Go back and look at the thread about block hours and credit. 4 or 5 pages of people talking about how many hours they flew and not one mention of a dollar figure for the year. I just thought it was strange that you included a dollar figure and then added that it didn't even include per diem. It came across as bragging...if that makes me an idiot, then so be it.

I hope you enjoy your career at SWA. Its great that there are still a few good jobs to be had out there. ATA and UAL have been a bust for me. But as long as its me and not you...I guess everything is OK.

 

[RedDogC130]

Red Dog,

Go back and look at the thread about block hours and credit. 4 or 5 pages of people talking about how many hours they flew and not one mention of a dollar figure for the year. I just thought it was strange that you included a dollar figure and then added that it didn't even include per diem. It came across as bragging...if that makes me an idiot, then so be it.

I hope you enjoy your career at SWA. Its great that there are still a few good jobs to be had out there. ATA and UAL have been a bust for me. But as long as its me and not you...I guess everything is OK.

Well when they say hours flown then credits...that is pay.....I just saved the hastle of anyone having to do the math....you can look at any of them find out the years there...equals pay rate times credit....equals pay for the year.

If you got offended too bad....I put it out there for people to know who are coming here...if you are not then you should not care...nobody bragging here...just putting facts out there....you need to lighten up a bit. sorry your choice of carriers did not work out for you...but dont get fussy with me

 

[Full of LUV]

Sorry Mamma

They don't have a problem with mil reserves at Alaska, JBLU or SWA. At Alaska, despite management's many shortcomings, they treat mil reserves well. I hear SWA and JetBlue are pretty good to their mil reserves also.

Sorry mamma, but our JBLU guys get all kinds of flack for mil leave, dock in pay and a call from the CP if it is too short of notice. We even had one get told by his CP that "were not AA, or DAL where we have reserves built for military coverage, if you want to play in the military, go to another company". Granted he was still in his first year, but that comment from the CP over the phone really shook him up and did what it was intended to do, intimidate him into not doing military.
Not sure if they still do, but AA used to give credit for time on mil, and all our UAL, DAL, FEDEX and UPS pilots have no trouble getting mil leave, even short notice. We don't have an Alaska pilot, but JBLU was far from the military friendly company from my observations.

 

[JungleJett]

I pretty much knew what I was getting myself into and plan on keeping my personal and professional commitments...but that's just me.

 

[psysicx]

Sorry mamma, but our JBLU guys get all kinds of flack for mil leave, dock in pay and a call from the CP if it is too short of notice. We even had one get told by his CP that "were not AA, or DAL where we have reserves built for military coverage, if you want to play in the military, go to another company". Granted he was still in his first year, but that comment from the CP over the phone really shook him up and did what it was intended to do, intimidate him into not doing military.
Not sure if they still do, but AA used to give credit for time on mil, and all our UAL, DAL, FEDEX and UPS pilots have no trouble getting mil leave, even short notice. We don't have an Alaska pilot, but JBLU was far from the military friendly company from my observations.

Time to invest in a tape recorder.