Required Pilot-to-Controller Responses

[minitour]

I always report leaving an altitude if I'm there...what I have a hard time understanding is the climb/descent calls.

On departure, I'll be switched over to uh...departure.

"Podunk Departure, Bugsmasher 123 climbing 1,300 to maintain 3,000 heading 240."

"Bugsmasher 123, Podunk Departure radar contact climb and maintain 6,000"

"Maintain 6000, Smasher 123"

Is this correct or should I say "leaving 1,500 (now that i've come up a few hundy) to maintain 6,000"?

Same thing in the descent.

"Smasher 123, descend and maintiain 14,000"

"Leaving FL 210 to maintain 14,000...smasher 123"

*somewhere around 15,500*
"Smasher 123 descend and maintain 8,000 contact Podunk Approach 111.11"

"Descend and maintain 8,000 and Podunk on 111.11, smasher 123"

Again...do I report that I'm descending through 15,500 to Center or only when I check on with Podunk?

"Podunk Approach, Bugsmasher 123 15,500 descending 8,000"

Well now that I've confused myself, I think I'll go....

-mini

 

[A Squared]

Mini,

You're confusing two different (but similar) reports.

On *initial* contact with a facility, you should report your current altitude, along with altitude climbing to or descending to. AIM 3-3-1 b 2 (a) This allows the controller to check your reported altitude against your mode C readout for discrepancies (problems with his equipment, you're on a bad altimiter setting, etc) You'd only do that whem contacting a new facitilty.

The subject of this thread is 3-3-3 a 1, which requires reporting when leaving an *assigned* altituude, not reporting the altitude you're through on each and every transmission.

 

[minitour]

Mini,

You're confusing two different (but similar) reports.

On *initial* contact with a facility, you should report your current altitude, along with altitude climbing to or descending to. AIM 3-3-1 b 2 (a) This allows the controller to check your reported altitude against your mode C readout for discrepancies (problems with his equipment, you're on a bad altimiter setting, etc) You'd only do that whem contacting a new facitilty.

The subject of this thread is 3-3-3 a 1, which requires reporting when leaving an *assigned* altituude, not reporting the altitude you're through on each and every transmission.

I understand the two different reports...what I'm confused with is the report in 3-3-3-a-1.

If I'm *assigned* 3,000 on departure...and when switched to departure (through about 1800') told to maintain 6,000...do I now report leaving 3,000 climbing 6,000? Common sense tells me no since I'm still down at 1800'.

Likewise...on approach. Leaving FL190 descending 13,000....around 15,000 the airspace is clear below me and Approach gives me "Descend and maintain 4,000"... I was *assigned* 13,000...now I'm *assigned* 4,000...but I never got to 13,000...so it would seem stupid to report leaving that altitude as I was never there. Now, if I was handed to another controller with the descent to 4,000 I understand my initial contact with the new guy would be:
"Approach, N123 13,800 descending 4,000"

...but what if I don't get the handoff? Do I report "leaving 13,800 to maintain 4,000"? Seems silly... Typically when given a new altitude when I haven't reached my previously assigned I just read back "climb and maintain XXX, N123"...but since something was assigned...should I be reporting leaving that altitude?

Maybe I missed a "when to report" in the AIM that clears this up?

-mini

 

[A Squared]

I understand the two different reports...what I'm confused with is the report in 3-3-3-a-1.

If I'm *assigned* 3,000 on departure...and when switched to departure (through about 1800') told to maintain 6,000...do I now report leaving 3,000 climbing 6,000? Common sense tells me no since I'm still down at 1800'.

Likewise...on approach. Leaving FL190 descending 13,000....around 15,000 the airspace is clear below me and Approach gives me "Descend and maintain 4,000"... I was *assigned* 13,000...now I'm *assigned* 4,000...but I never got to 13,000...so it would seem stupid to report leaving that altitude as I was never there. Now, if I was handed to another controller with the descent to 4,000 I understand my initial contact with the new guy would be:
"Approach, N123 13,800 descending 4,000"

...but what if I don't get the handoff? Do I report "leaving 13,800 to maintain 4,000"? Seems silly... Typically when given a new altitude when I haven't reached my previously assigned I just read back "climb and maintain XXX, N123"...but since something was assigned...should I be reporting leaving that altitude?

Maybe I missed a "when to report" in the AIM that clears this up?

-mini

my understnading (flawed as that may be) is that if you are *maintaining* that assigned altitude, then you report leaving it. Otherwise you wouldn't report descending or climbing through it. The purpose of the 3-3-3 a 1 call is to let the controller know that you are in fact starting your descent (without him having to watch your data block) so that he may now assign that altitude to another plane. If you've contacted departure through 13,400 descending to 9000 and he clears you to 7000, he already knows that you're descending, and he's not going to assign 9000 to a plane higher then you.

 

[minitour]

my understnading (flawed as that may be) is that if you are *maintaining* that assigned altitude, then you report leaving it. Otherwise you wouldn't report descending or climbing through it. The purpose of the 3-3-3 a 1 call is to let the controller know that you are in fact starting your descent (without him having to watch your data block) so that he may now assign that altitude to another plane. If you've contacted departure through 13,400 descending to 9000 and he clears you to 7000, he already knows that you're descending, and he's not going to assign 9000 to a plane higher then you.

Royer.

So...I'm in good shape. Bueno.

Thanks for the clarification.

-mini

 

[Draginass]

That captain sounds like one of those guys that feels the need to lord it over people. The problem with that is those people are almost always idiots.

 

[pilothouston123]

I must say something about this.... this is all about communcation and are you being loud and clear with your message. Does Center get what they need out of your reply's and are the responces consie and to the point. Langague is art and open to inturputation.

If a captian is repimanding you for the way you talk on the raidio... He is probably being petty and should be told to lighten up.

I had a guy like that... should have told him to lay off my ass the first chance i got

 

[MauleSkinner]

My question is, if it's so darn important, why'd they take it out of the regs?

 

[A Squared]

My question is, if it's so darn important, why'd they take it out of the regs?

Why'd they take *what* out of the regs?

 

[MauleSkinner]

Why'd they take *what* out of the regs?

Ah...disregard...consider it an example of the "negative" principle of primacy in learning. Learned it wrong first, and can't unlearn it fast enoug. Sorry.

David