Republic gone in 2011?

[SB Diver]

We can all agree to disagree on many parts of this, but one thing I think we all feel is true: both sides are glad this deal didn't go through.

 

[arjayeffo]

Arjayeffo, just wandering. How is it working out for you now? Didn't F9 start with a staple with the RAH?

Wandering and posting at the same time - that must be a good wifi signal. Our starting position of a staple with RAH is every bit as unreachable as our opening offer with SWAPA was. Once again, its how negotiations begin, with the promise (at least in the RAH case) of meeting somewhere in the middle. Go back and read Einstein - I actually said I agreed with SWAPA making their staple offer.

As for how things are working out for me now, I hate to break it to you but I get three raises (albeit two are snapback) this year and we're adding aircraft. And the fact that an actual ISL is still a long way off regardless of when the list itself is actually published. Even if I were the type to say 'what if' as opposed to moving forward, I won't be able to make that call until we see how the Airtran guys actually end up. There are more than a few of you out there who are secretly hoping that GK plays that 'gotta preserve the culture' card one more time.

 

[Dolce]

RJ,
SWAPA had to have a staple because any SLI would have to be put to a vote...per our constitution which wasn't going to happen in 5 hours or even 5 days when it was put to the pilots in the first place! SWA/GK knew this because SWAPA communicated this problem at the onset. FAPA couldn't meet til the 11th hour so there was no chance in hell to work this out even with SWAPA repeatedly stating a reason for the staple. It was a no win for both sides.
When we settled for our TA2, I asked my other rep about certain language regarding purchasing another carrier. Asked specifically if there was an airline in mind and he said there was one in DEN we wouldn't let a "competitor" purchase. Pretty easy to figure that out...right? When did SWA put in a bid for F9...something like a week before competing bids had to be accomplished. You don't think SWA/GK knew the constraints of SWAPA when he laid this in the pilots laps? My conspiracy theory is he has no intent because the only other bid was from a "non-competitor" so no need to overbid for F9 after seeing the real numbers. Just saying it's kind of funny how it all played out. RAH gets F9 and SWAs pilots get the blame for the purchase falling through! I'll restate SWA/GK didn't bother to
consult the pilots the second time around did he? If he really wanted to have RAH he would have let the unions/arbitrator work it out after the fact.

 

[vixin]

Who cares about what happened to Frontier? Its over let it die already. They have their own issues now, let them deal with those. SWAPA has its own, maybe you should be more focused on those.

 

[arjayeffo]

Dolce, we agree on most things. Except that I have never heard that it was FAPA that wouldn't start negotiating until there were only 5 hours left. Source?

The only thing I was trying to demonstrate, with far too many words as usual... is that there was no actual negotiations going on. There are lots of voices saying that we didn't negotiate in good faith, or that FAPA ignored attempts to negotiate later in the process. There were no negotiations taking place, period.

Neogtiation = "give and take"
SWAPA to FAPA = "take it or leave it"

So be it, as I said, I don't blame you for taking that stance. I just wish people would stop blaming FAPA for taking the stance they did. All the trouble started when we actually had the nads to 'leave it'. Like SB Diver said, if we all were happy with the fact that this didn't go through, we wouldn't still be talking about it a year and a half later. (Hint: Its hardly ever a FAPA pilot who brings it up in the first place...) We would actually be able to carry on a thread about Republic without it inevitably turning into the same old pissing match with SWA egos butting in to tell us all how much we wish we could have a mulligan, or how we should be moaning about the fact that we didn't get molested into the greatest carrier in the free world. Under the right circumstances, I would have given up my sidestick and tray table. But the deal wasn't right for either of us. Can't it be as simple as that?

 

[Dolce]

Vixin,
I'm not worried because I put my faith in SWAPAs leadership and trip pull junkies to protect my seat position and relative seniority! I mean our M&A guys backgrounds and experience havent been overstated by SWAPA and they are the smartest men in the room...are they not? If everything works out, I'll be chunking gear for AAI captain whose DOH is 5 yrs junior to mine! If that isn't such a sweet deal I don't know what else could possibly be! By the way, don't tell me to talk to my reps because I do it repeatedly and I come back feeling as if I just talked to an amateur drunk off of self-perceived importance.

D

 

[Dolce]

RJ,
Something about the FAPA president tied to the board in regard to discussions relating to creditors? He couldn't get free from meeting in Washington(?) and get the MEC together for face-to-face, so a teleconference took place at the last minute. I believe everyone was played by certain entities on both sides. How this relates to the here and now is always relevant...just my opinion though?

D

 

[arjayeffo]

Again, by your own admission and according to the rep you quoted in your first post, SWAPA didn't have the time, power, or intention to offer anything but a staple. So how can your rep (or anyone for that matter) contend that we weren't willing to negotiate - either during the five hours or afterward? Unless by 'failure to negotiate', what you really mean is 'failure to acquiesce'?
You may be right that there are things that I have been misled on, but that kind of blatant double talk reeks of damage control to me.

On a completely separate note, a sincere thank you for your service. I can only dream of seeing the world like you have.

 

[StaySeated]

That's because one of FAPA's MEC members was an ex-SWA employee who was terminated in the 80's, he would not be allowed to return. So he pushed his agenda so that he could stay Captain till 65 at Frontier. I got that from a guy who knows a guy.

My U2 brother speaks the truth. That is exactly how it went down. The sad part is FAPA could care less. Talk about selling out your own brothers.

You guys have me seriously concerned about your mental abilities. These comments are bordering on insane.

If I told you that fire is hot, and water is wet, you would still disagree.

Some of you make the group over at the "Peoples Temple" look like they lack commitment.

 

[Dolce]

RJ,
I gave how this abortion went down. Read the post slowly...SWAPAs constitution wouldn't allow for a SLI without a membership vote...hence staple was the only option with the time constraints because the deal had to be completed by midnight the day both unions finally met. If they did agree to an SLI without our approval, the membership would have their a$$es in court and won in a heartbeat. Hence, benefits and pay protection/big effing raises gone. Good luck at RAH because things may not go how you expect at RAH.

D