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Repercussion of Delta Retirements

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Pilot Doc

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Posts
87
Delta also has around 500 pilots who are over 55 with 25 years of service. Which means that they can retire anytime they want to. What do you think they will do if they sence an imminent ch 11 filing? Stick around, I think not ... All of your 777's can be grounded over night with a sudden pilot retirement rush.

The above post from the AA/DL 777 thread intrigued me. How vulnerable is the 777 fleet to a mass exodus of senior pilots? How many 777 Captains do they have? Any ideas what Delta would do if suddenly left sans 777 captains?
 
777's

If that many Captains retire in one fell swoop, it won't affect only the 777 left seat, but every seat position in the company.

Not only are the 500 pilots that retired gone; but the 500 upgrading -777 Captains are "out of pocket" for 6-8 weeks while they are in class, and also THEIR 500 replacements are in training for 6-8 weeks to replace them. . . . and so on down the seniority list. . .

Normally this happens over the course of a "training cycle", but if they all leave at once. . . their training manager picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue. . .

The only solution I could see is that Delta would have to offer these Captains a "Bankruptcy Proof" retention package (you know, similar to what the executives have) to keep them around until everyone is upgraded. . . .
 
Remember a couple of years ago when US Air was furloughing and cancelling flights because they were short on crews. When the pilots figured out that they were going to be furloughed ( and probably not recalled ) they started using their sick time & vacation.

Strange, but true.
 
klhoard said:
The only solution I could see is that Delta would have to offer these Captains a "Bankruptcy Proof" retention package (you know, similar to what the executives have) to keep them around until everyone is upgraded. . . .
Another option that I've heard thrown around is to allow them to retire and then retain their services on a temporary basis as contract pilots until the categories can be properly manned.

This is all just another prime example of Delta mismanagement. If the airline was properly manned and we had some forward thinkers in management this wouldn't be an issue.
 
I am sure Dalpa has looked at this, and they may do something like that (a temporary fix---allow a one time part time contract for a few months guaranteeing the retiring guys lump sum etc), but that can lead to a bad precedent. I don't think Dalpa would want any fleets parked, and neither would management.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
I don't think Dalpa would want any fleets parked, and neither would management.

Bye Bye--General Lee
I know is isn't your fleet, (it is DelCon though), but your will be seeing just that (a fleet parked) on Nov 2nd with the FRJ.........


better?
 
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I'm sorry...

Rotorhead said:
I know is isn't your fleet, (it is DelCon though), but your will be seeing just that on Nov 2nd with the 328.........
Say again...came out garbled.


Kaffir
x Blue Ridger
 
We have already given DAL management relief by the recent side letter of agreement concerning increasing the Cap for the B777, B767-400 and B767 ATL.

With this agreement, as far as I know, there is no date for which this agreement is to terminate. That means continious never ending relief for the company.

As far as I am concerned, with all we have done to help the company, if they are unable to staff these categories sufficiently -- that is just too dam# bad. They should know by now how to staff an airline.
 
quote from rotorhead:
"I know is isn't your fleet, (it is DelCon though), but your will be seeing just that on Nov 2nd with the 328........"




Give it a rest......you wanted to be "independant" at Indy Air.......now you have your chance.
 
FDJ2 said:
This is all just another prime example of Delta mismanagement. If the airline was properly manned and we had some forward thinkers in management this wouldn't be an issue.
Even with proper manning, there's no way DL would be able to cover all that flying if 500 captains all retire simulataneously. It has nothing to do with forward thinking or manning, no company can afford to carry enough excess employees in the event of a freakish mass retirement.

If 50 doctors from your local hospital all retired at once, do you think the hospital could still cover it all without cancelling any appointments or surgeries?
 
MedFlyer said:
Even with proper manning, there's no way DL would be able to cover all that flying if 500 captains all retire simulataneously. It has nothing to do with forward thinking or manning, no company can afford to carry enough excess employees in the event of a freakish mass retirement.

No airline should be required to carry extra people true. But, even a somewhat forward thinking management team could foresee early retirements when they threaton to go BK and want to change the retirement. Delta management has so little forsight that they recently layed off a bunch of ground school instructors. Up to 50% of our sim capacity on some aircraft is contracted out to other airlines. Many of the sim instructors have been sent back to the line. Sorry, but if early retirements cause a problem, it is Delta managements fault.
 
Medflyer,

Dalpa just gave the company MORE relief, allowing a higher cap on the 764 and 765 categories in ATL and LA---as announced today. We keep helping them out of these situations, and then they expect it later. But, we are continually looked at (from the stews and others) as VILLIANS. If a pilot who has worked here for 25 years and has a sizeable lump sum (more than $1 million) that he created from his own hard work can't leave when he sees a 30-35% pay cut looming, then when can he? There supposedly are about 500 pilots like that still flying the line, and another 1000 that are over 50 and can take their lump sums now if they choose. They all are free to leave when ever they want, and currently all they have to do is give 24 hours notice. If Chap 11 seems iminent, then a lot might leave. Who knows? It is up to them.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Sounds like DAL management better keep them happy.... Only 24 hour notice? That can't help with planning...
 
MedFlyer said:
Even with proper manning, there's no way DL would be able to cover all that flying if 500 captains all retire simulataneously. It has nothing to do with forward thinking or manning, no company can afford to carry enough excess employees in the event of a freakish mass retirement.

If 50 doctors from your local hospital all retired at once, do you think the hospital could still cover it all without cancelling any appointments or surgeries?
MedFlyer,

Has everything to do with it. If I were a 777 captain, I'd be ready to pull the ripcord on Sep/Oct 1. Their latest proposal has a nasty 120 days notice for retiring. A wise management team has to expect 500 minimum to retire. There is nothing freakish about it, just normal human behavior that is predictable.


DL_Infidel
 
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Medflyer states:

"Even with proper manning, there's no way DL would be able to cover all that flying if 500 captains all retire simulataneously. It has nothing to do with forward thinking or manning, no company can afford to carry enough excess employees in the event of a freakish mass retirement. "

"If 50 doctors from your local hospital all retired at once, do you think the hospital could still cover it all without cancelling any appointments or surgeries?"


Unfortunately Medflyer, DAL Scheduling has been keeping all categories extremely short when it comes to manning. The only exception to this is the F/O B737 in ATL. There is currently a huge surplus -- but there will be a displacement probably in October.

The pilot training flow has been at a trickle pace due to cutting the Training Dept. practically by 50%. I believe the cuts in the Training Dept were deliberate so that the company can say to the arbitrator "we only have so many slots for training due to the capabilities of our Training Dept." And thus -- we can only bring back only so many furloughees (30 - 45 per month). But when we were hiring in 99 - 2001, we hired almost 120 per month.

Crew Scheduling knows that there will be a mass exodus of senior CPT's if bankruptcy looms large. Crew Scheduling continues to ignore the problem by not putting pilots in training for the inevitable.

Instead, DAL Management says there is a staffing problem, and we as pilots, decide to solve the companies problem through another side letter of agreement. We are once again, doing the work of others and getting no credit for it.
 
MedFlyer said:
It has nothing to do with forward thinking or manning, no company can afford to carry enough excess employees in the event of a freakish mass retirement.
Freakish? The fact that we are talking about this and have been for sometime will make the event very predictable, not freakish.

Why would a senior captain stay and make 65% of what he currently makes, work more days for less pay under less favorable working conditions and jeapordize his pension lump sum, when he can retire at 60% of his pay with 50% in cash up front and play golf?

If we had forward thinkers in management they could see this coming just as well as we can and they would have spooled up the training pipeline, recalled the instructors, put out a large advance entitlement and offered training by passes to the pilots most likely to retire early.

It's not freakish when it is highly predictable.
 
But just remember ONE THING-----THE STEWS HAVE ALREADY TAKEN THEIR PAY CUTS! (as yelled to me and the Captain before slamming the cockpit door shut after saying "Cabin ready for pushback.....")



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
holy COW!

>>>But just remember ONE THING-----THE STEWS HAVE ALREADY TAKEN THEIR PAY CUTS! (as yelled to me and the Captain before slamming the cockpit door shut after saying "Cabin ready for pushback.....")


Wow, did one of those 50K/yr part time flying coke machines really do that?
 
P38,


YES. And we get that attitude all of the time. It is fun to see a Grandma get all huffy and yell at you.



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
P38,


YES. And we get that attitude all of the time. It is fun to see a Grandma get all huffy and yell at you.



Bye Bye--General Lee
Given the way you talk about other DL employees on this board, I'm not surprised you get that attitude. You treat people like sh!t and not surprisingly they treat you like sh!t back.

Your attitude is exactly why the other employee groups don't support you.
 
Medflyer,


Yeah, ok. This is a pilot board, and if other employee groups are offended, then too bad. I am sure they slam us on their boards...


And, how do you know I treat people like $hit? I guess you are there when meet the stews, or talk to the mechanics or ground/ramp people...... I have an opinion, and I am giving it on this board. If you do not like it, then sign off buddy. You have NO CLUE who I am or how I treat people. You sound like a spoiled brat yourself....."You treat people mean, MOMMY! Help me! That mean Delta pilot is treating people mean!!!"



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Did you and your captain just sit there and take this kind of of dis-repectful
behavior in stride? I would have booted her off the plane asap. HS
 
Hey General,


Pretty low of that F/A for bustin your chops about the pay issue prior to pushback. Sad part is , I had one start giving me a ration last week jumpseating down to ATL about the issue and I don't even fly for you guys. I guess this one thought that anyone in a pilot's uniform was fair game.Go figure :rolleyes:


PHXFLYR :cool:
 
Med's a stew

I think MedFlyer is a stew. No rational pilot can possibly think the way he does.
 

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