Relevance of 717 to Southwest continues to diminish

[Roomwithaview]

Hello? Who is it?

On Your Six This message is hidden because On Your Six is on your ignore list.

Just heard a knock at the door but when I answered it, no one was there! Just a real foul smell of fish!! Oh well, you know what they say, "There's only two things in the world that smell like fish and one of them is fish!"

 

[dicko]

Uh, don't you mean to say the majority of your MEC? The pilots never got a chance to vote on it. Not saying that's a bad thing. Just trying to be accurate.

I'm not really sure what this has to do with values but I totally support your MEC voting it down. I am NOT one of the guys that is upset that YOUR MEC voted it down. Amazed? Yes! Stunned? Absolutely!!! Upset? No, I would say that I am giddy with joy. I'm almost as happy as a guy that was 59.999999 years old the day before the new rule took effect.

Time, and only time, will tell on that one. I am impressed. Good on you guys for "sticking to your values." I can't personally say if Gary Kelly feels you are being disrespectful by turning down HIS generous offer or if he feels "disrespected" because your MEC wouldn't grant him an extension. You guys are totally in the right to do so and I support your decision One Hundred and Ten percent. As I said before, Thank You Thank You THANK YOU!!!!


I'm sure he will give it the same amount of honor he gave to us when he told us all he wanted for Xmas was gates at MDW. Might have to do a little research to get the gist of that comment.

Each of the MEC voted based on the wishes of their constituents. They would have been lynched and then recalled if that were not the case. The MEC were bombarded with emails and phone calls. Records were taken to cover their backsides.

I don't naturally trust this process, but I actually believe it was the wish of the pilots. Whether you do, or not is not material to the outcome. That's what happened. Some are irritated, but the majority were represented. I'm a little shocked.

I'm sure that you are pleased. Although I've got a little feeling that it's got nothing to do with our welfare. I don't believe that SWAPA would have voted it down and neither do you. I also think that in a dark little part of your heart that you'd rather see us on the street, rather than see us get something that you didn't. Right ?

I'm familiar with MDW gates. I fly with ex ATA pilots all the time. One of the ATL MEC reps is one.

Toodle pip.

 

[texman]

Hey is this true DELTA?

There's a poster in the training center that shows the cockpit of the 88/90 being converted to to 717 layout. This would allow one pilot category for 717/88/90. It also then would allow for the 30+ Saudi 90's that are looking for a home.... Just saying!

 

[nwaf16dude]

Hey is this true DELTA?

There's a poster in the training center that shows the cockpit of the 88/90 being converted to to 717 layout. This would allow one pilot category for 717/88/90. It also then would allow for the 30+ Saudi 90's that are looking for a home.... Just saying!

The Saudi md-90s were delivered with MD-11-like avionics because they wanted commonality with their MD-11s. I've been told that makes them significantly different from the 717. I don't have first hand knowledge.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I am ready, willing and able to extend the culture to you and your brethren once you take your rightful position at Soutwest as a REAL SOUTHWEST PILOT who starts at the bottom of the list as a new hire, makes it off probation and comes up through the ranks like your brethren that left the tranny before you and the 6000 others that are here now.

The arrogance of junior SWA f/os is truly breathtaking.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Rage

Each of the MEC voted based on the wishes of their constituents. They would have been lynched and then recalled if that were not the case. The MEC were bombarded with emails and phone calls. Records were taken to cover their backsides.

To be clear once again. The MEC voted. The membership did not. You have no clue how they would have voted. Hide behind "phone records" you and I will never see or hear all you want. Only a membership vote can back up the statement that you made that "the membership voted"

I don't naturally trust this process, but I actually believe it was the wish of the pilots. Whether you do, or not is not material to the outcome. That's what happened. Some are irritated, but the majority were represented. I'm a little shocked.

Please share your thoughts on not trusting the process and why you are shocked.

I'm sure that you are pleased.

Definitely.

Although I've got a little feeling that it's got nothing to do with our welfare.

Right on again. I am a dues paying member of SWAPA who represents the RSW pilots. You are managed by a large national organization that has not done a very good job of representing ALL its members in the past. (can you say commuter pilots) of which their poor tactics towards them quickly dwindled the ranks of the majors and FORCED ALPA to finally recognize and attend to the same pilots they had so little respect or defense for in the past. I guess all those crimes have been forgiven.

I don't believe that SWAPA would have voted it down and neither do you.

Not true. SWAPA did no polling on this one. I can tell you why. It would have been a stunning defeat with the membership. They were gearing up for road shows to do the hard sell. That wouldn't have passed the muster either. (IMHO-just like you)

I also think that in a dark little part of your heart that you'd rather see us on the street, rather than see us get something that you didn't. Right ?

Inaccurate callous statement with a glimmer of reality in it.

First off. I have no desire to see any pilots lose their jobs. However, my allegiance and number one priority is and always will be to the brothers and sisters in my union (SWAPA).

I am hardcore union from a previous life. Nothing to do with aviation. We had battles with other unions all the time over who had the right to the work on the jobs we were on. The ones we opposed made the same cries you are making now. If it's our work it's our work. Try to take it from me and you're in for a fight.

Second, as far as you getting something I don't has nothing to do with it. You were going to be handily rewarded for this acquisition. That wasn't enough. As Steve Chase so eloquently pointed out: [FONT=Palatino Linotype, Palatino, Helvetica]AirTran decided that $2 million extra in career earnings per pilot and a job with the best airline in aviation wasn’t enough for them. They want your seniority too. That’s not something SWAPA is willing to give them.

[/FONT]

I'm familiar with MDW gates. I fly with ex ATA pilots all the time. One of the ATL MEC reps is one.

"All I want for Xmas is gates at MDW" has nothing to do with an ATA pilot. It has everything to do with Mr. Kelly's "WORD". You will soon find out that what you consider to be "His word" and what he considers it to be can mean two very different things.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Fubar

The arrogance of junior SWA f/os is truly breathtaking.

And the ignorance of Flight Info Airtran loyalists knows no bounds. Captain here but then again you haven't been paying very close attention and do seem to have some pretty poor comprehension skills. Case in point. When a train blows its whistle and you're on the tracks it's usually a good time to have an exit strategy.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Sorry, roomie. Not a loyalist. Nor do I need an exit strategy.

Just astounded by the arrogance that comes from being the most over paid regional airline pilot in America.

 

[Roomwithaview]

And there you have it.

Sorry, roomie. Not a loyalist. Nor do I need an exit strategy.

Just astounded by the arrogance that comes from being the most over paid regional airline pilot in America.

Does anything else really need to be said about your ignorance and arrogance after making that statement?

I liked you better when you were Kharma Police. But, I was still close to putting you on my ignore list. Because, well, you've become irrelevant!.

 

[General Lee]

And the ignorance of Flight Info Airtran loyalists knows no bounds. Captain here but then again you haven't been paying very close attention and do seem to have some pretty poor comprehension skills. Case in point. When a train blows its whistle and you're on the tracks it's usually a good time to have an exit strategy.

This guy is going to implode when he sees the eventual SLI list.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Roomwithaview]

OOOOhhh yeah. Right there. Mmmmmm!!!! That feels SO GOOD!!!!!

General Lee This message is hidden because General Lee is on your ignore list.

 

[texman]

Sorry, roomie. Not a loyalist. Nor do I need an exit strategy.

Just astounded by the arrogance that comes from being the most over paid regional airline pilot in America.

Hey! Your pretty cocky and ignorant your self. Do you really work for ALK? Because if so I bet your routes are going to be threaten here pretty soon.

I haven't said much about you or to you, but you seem to display a sense of urgency to get up in everyones business.

Can you explain to me how a person from both sides (SWA/AT) can get to you so bad that you have to chime in. Why the F do you care? This be-atch is going to arbitration. We will then see from a academic point who's career is worth more.

I know you are just rooting for the underdog (AT). What will you call SWA after SOC, overpaid near and long haul international pilots.

What are you going to do when DELTA buys you. Your career expectations will be a 737 driver for life.

Dude just put the popcorn down, go to Vegas get a massage and take care of your self. No stress bro!

 

[carl p]

The Saudi md-90s were delivered with MD-11-like avionics because they wanted commonality with their MD-11s. I've been told that makes them significantly different from the 717. I don't have first hand knowledge.

Hey is this true DELTA?

There's a poster in the training center that shows the cockpit of the 88/90 being converted to to 717 layout. This would allow one pilot category for 717/88/90. It also then would allow for the 30+ Saudi 90's that are looking for a home.... Just saying!

I haven't been in an MD-11 in years, but I remember being told the 717 is based off the MD-11 flight deck. In fact I was told the first few AT 717 classes in training actually used an MD-11 CPT because the 717 CPT wasn't ready. I remember seeing pics of those Saudi MD-90s and they looked very similar to the 717.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Does anything else really need to be said about your ignorance and arrogance after making that statement?

Ignorance? See if you can follow some logical reasoning:

1. Your business model is based on point to point service to small/medium sized cities so as to avoid hub airports.
2. Your pay model is based on mileage, not hours.
3. Your scheduling model has you flying 4 to 6 short legs a day.
4. Your profits over the last decade were gleaned from fuel hedging, not airline operations (sort of a CPA deal).
5. Your 1,2,3 system appears to encourage excessive drinking on layovers.
6. You rush around airports on breaks trying to find fast food.
7. "Gays, grannies and grandes."

Add them up and you get? REGIONAL AIRLINE. Instead of flag ties, you should all be wearing spikey haircuts, ipods and backpacks.

But, thank you for scamming SWA into paying you the highest narrowbody pay rate in America. I'll admit that's the one thing you have contributed to all of us.

This guy is going to implode when he sees the eventual SLI list.

Yeah, there are going to be a bunch of cranial explosions in HOU, LAS, OAK, MDW and BWI. Not so much in ATL and MCO though.

Because if so I bet your routes are going to be threaten here pretty soon.

Actually, I agree with you on that.

Can you explain to me how a person from both sides (SWA/AT) can get to you so bad that you have to chime in. Why the F do you care?

I believe I've already answered that countless times. Your arrogance, threats and attempted intimidation of people who will soon be your peers while you attempt to steal their seniority demands counter commentary in defense of fairness.

What are you going to do when DELTA buys you. Your career expectations will be a 737 driver for life.

Actually, I'd anticipate the DAL guys trying to erect fences around their widebody seats. When DoH was dropped out of the ALPA merger/frag policy in favor of "career expectations" that was a given for any future merger of widebody/narrowbody carriers.

Frankly, if I got DoH with a widebody fence I'd be fine with it.

However, I have a feeling that scenario might be a long way down the road yet.

 

[General Lee]

Ignorance? See if you can follow some logical reasoning:

1. Your business model is based on point to point service to small/medium sized cities so as to avoid hub airports.
2. Your pay model is based on mileage, not hours.
3. Your scheduling model has you flying 4 to 6 short legs a day.
4. Your profits over the last decade were gleaned from fuel hedging, not airline operations (sort of a CPA deal).
5. Your 1,2,3 system appears to encourage excessive drinking on layovers.
6. You rush around airports on breaks trying to find fast food.
7. "Gays, grannies and grandes."

Add them up and you get? REGIONAL AIRLINE. Instead of flag ties, you should all be wearing spikey haircuts, ipods and backpacks.

But, thank you for scamming SWA into paying you the highest narrowbody pay rate in America. I'll admit that's the one thing you have contributed to all of us.



Yeah, there are going to be a bunch of cranial explosions in HOU, LAS, OAK, MDW and BWI. Not so much in ATL and MCO though.



Actually, I agree with you on that.



I believe I've already answered that countless times. Your arrogance, threats and attempted intimidation of people who will soon be your peers while you attempt to steal their seniority demands counter commentary in defense of fairness.



Actually, I'd anticipate the DAL guys trying to erect fences around their widebody seats. When DoH was dropped out of the ALPA merger/frag policy in favor of "career expectations" that was a given for any future merger of widebody/narrowbody carriers.

Frankly, if I got DoH with a widebody fence I'd be fine with it.

However, I have a feeling that scenario might be a long way down the road yet.

Well done, and FANTASTIC! IF something ever did happen with DL, I too would expect widebody fences, maybe everything from the 757 up. But, that would give you guys access to Detroit, and I know you'd be excited about that! And what's left of CVG and MEM. Fun stuff.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Sacha]

Sorry, roomie. Not a loyalist. Nor do I need an exit strategy.

Just astounded by the arrogance that comes from being the most over paid regional airline pilot in America.

If SWA is a regional, what that make your airline Alaska?

 

[texman]

Ignorance? See if you can follow some logical reasoning:

1. Your business model is based on point to point service to small/medium sized cities so as to avoid hub airports.
2. Your pay model is based on mileage, not hours.
3. Your scheduling model has you flying 4 to 6 short legs a day.
4. Your profits over the last decade were gleaned from fuel hedging, not airline operations (sort of a CPA deal).
5. Your 1,2,3 system appears to encourage excessive drinking on layovers.
6. You rush around airports on breaks trying to find fast food.
7. "Gays, grannies and grandes."

Add them up and you get? REGIONAL AIRLINE. Instead of flag ties, you should all be wearing spikey haircuts, ipods and backpacks.

But, thank you for scamming SWA into paying you the highest narrowbody pay rate in America. I'll admit that's the one thing you have contributed to all of us.



Yeah, there are going to be a bunch of cranial explosions in HOU, LAS, OAK, MDW and BWI. Not so much in ATL and MCO though.



Actually, I agree with you on that.



I believe I've already answered that countless times. Your arrogance, threats and attempted intimidation of people who will soon be your peers while you attempt to steal their seniority demands counter commentary in defense of fairness.



Actually, I'd anticipate the DAL guys trying to erect fences around their widebody seats. When DoH was dropped out of the ALPA merger/frag policy in favor of "career expectations" that was a given for any future merger of widebody/narrowbody carriers.

Frankly, if I got DoH with a widebody fence I'd be fine with it.

However, I have a feeling that scenario might be a long way down the road yet.

Ok fair enough. I never have threaten a AT pilot. Maybe busted each other ballz, but never threaten. The point to point is our biz model. Domestic carrier yes regional no. DAL+ALK are around the corner.

 

[redflyer65]

If SWA is a regional, what that make your airline Alaska?

OUCH! Well stated Sacha. I love the fact that people like General Lee and Fubag assume we just do short haul.

We have been evolving more and more into a long haul carrier and feed that operation with less short haul. It's not completely there yet, but progressing.

RF

 

[Roomwithaview]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Be Vewwy Vewwwy Quiet.

Keep letting OAL's believed we are just some po-dunk regional. If we were a big airline we would have a bunch of regionals like Republic and Skywest doing the bulk of our crappy little point to point stuff.

SHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

 

[laker4284]

Looking at SWA as a short haul carrier is way off the mark. They began moving away from that back in the mid 80s when the user fees were first tacked onto fares. Hard to be a regional when their system is coast to coast flies more pax than any other carrier and whose average leg is somewhere around 750 miles.