Rejected!!!

[FearlessFreep]

Good response WhiteCloud.

 

[jetblue320]

The Color Of Life

Moose, sorry to hear about your rejection but if you can, try to look forward. Everything in this life happens for a reason. About 5 or so years ago I was employed by a small yet stable cargo outfit flying 757's. After 11 years there, this airline (yellow) got bought out by a bigger (what seemed to be at the time much better) airline, (brown). Well, long story short the yellow guys ended up on the street, unemployed. Was I bitter? Heck yea, we all were. Almost instantly, an opportunity presented itself (blue) and here I am, at the tiptop of the heap living a Blue Dream. There are a lot of stories like mine and your's out there these days but more often than not, they have a happy ending. I have found that the secret is not in bitterness, it is the ability to move on. It looks like you have as well and I wish you the best of luck in finding your dream, whatever color it may be. The key for me was finally realizing that the brown airline did me a huge favor. Thanks!

C yaaa

 

[captboy2001]

at least u guys got the chance to interview with airtran...ive been trying since 2001...have internal references..been to job fairs and still no calls...i agree when its your time to go they will call...

 

[FracCapt]

Last year at the Atlantic Air Inc conference, the Jill stated that flying as a Captain under Part 121 or military was alot harder than flying as a captain in corporate or Part 135.

Whoever stated that is obviously not a pilot - or had a strictly military/121 background. I can safely say that flying in combat is a he11 of a lot harder than PIC in 121, 135, or 91, but I see no way that 121 is harder than 135 or 91. Just a different set of rules. Plus, under 121, most of the flying is done into large airports - whereas 91/135 we spend a lot of time in and out of podunk little airports where you're lucky if there's a place to park a jet.

I've applied to Airtran....but I doubt I'll ever hear from them since I don't have any 121 PIC or military time. My 2500+ PIC Jet and 4000+ Turbine PIC is apparently absolutely useless there - but SWA, JB, AWA, F9, etc all think it's good. I think Airtran is a great company, and would be a great place to hang my hat - but if they really believe that my time is useless because I have no 121 PIC, then it's probably not worth wasting my time. Oh well....I've got lots of time to waste when I'm on the road.

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't believe that Jill Nidiffer made that statement. What she probably said was something to the effect that PArt 121 time was valued more by our DO, who has no 91/135 experience.

I was strictly a 91/135 guy before I came to AirTran, and neither one is "harder". It's just different.

It would be pretty humorous to see some career 121 guys try to do Operational Planning and Performance Planning for a typical week of 135 flying (What the heck is approach climb gradient? What do you mean we are heading "South" and he'll let us know if we are going to BNA or ATL once he's made a few phone calls on the Flitefone? What do you mean "Fluky is closed, refile for Biggy NOW so we can get out of here"?).

Likewise, it would be fuinny to see someone with no 121 experience try to deal with the issues that can comeup during a 25 minute turn . . . .

Long story short, neither is better or worse, only different. Unfotunately, no one told that to the people making the hiring decisions.

 

[SCT]

Ty Webb:
I was strictly a 91/135 guy before I came to AirTran, and neither one is "harder". It's just different.


I had a retired airline pilot in my Citation Excel initial class at Flight Safety. He had tons of military and heavy international time with several airlines, but had never flown 91. Sharp guy, but he was the first to admit he was lost . He was hired to run a flight department for some weathly family. He knew nothing about customs, filing a flightplan, weather, tracking maintance, etc. He even said the ground school at FS was drastically different from how the airlines teach. The funny thing was, because of a couple of divorces over the years....he was forced to keep flying passed age 60!

I'm going to catch hell for this statement, but I think a well experienced 135 or frac. crew is probably the most well rounded pilots in the sky today.

My thoughts,
SCT

 

[flx757]

I'm going to catch hell for this statement, but I think a well experienced 135 or frac. crew is probably the most well rounded pilots in the sky today.

My thoughts,
SCT

Not from me, you're not. While I might not totally agree they are the MOST well rounded pilots in the sky, I WILL say they are VERY well rounded with a lot of valuable experience to bring to any company. While I have strictly been a 121 pilot (and 135 in the days when 19 seat scheduled passenger "commuter" turboprops were flown under Part 135), my wife has flown both 121 and is now a fractional Captain operating under Parts 91 and 135. She definitely knows more about planning and performance, customs and international flight planning, etc...than she was ever required to know under 121, and I believe it has made her a more well rounded pilot. Along with her safety background, attention to detail, sound judgement, professionalism, etc....she would make ANY company an excellent employee. However, AirTran deems her unqualified. So, due to their shortsightedness and this ridiculous policy, we have BOTH moved on. Me to Alaska, and her to her fractional company, where she intends to stay.

So Moose, better things are obviously on the horizon for you. Good luck being there and being ready when that next door swings wide open for you.

 

[bafanguy]

Ty Webb:
I was strictly a 91/135 guy before I came to AirTran, and neither one is "harder". It's just different.


I had a retired airline pilot in my Citation Excel initial class at Flight Safety. He had tons of military and heavy international time with several airlines, but had never flown 91. Sharp guy, but he was the first to admit he was lost . He was hired to run a flight department for some weathly family. He knew nothing about customs, filing a flightplan, weather, tracking maintance, etc. He even said the ground school at FS was drastically different from how the airlines teach. The funny thing was, because of a couple of divorces over the years....he was forced to keep flying passed age 60!

I'm going to catch hell for this statement, but I think a well experienced 135 or frac. crew is probably the most well rounded pilots in the sky today.

My thoughts,
SCT

SCT,

All the "deficiencies" you attribute to former airline ( now frac ) classmate are, in fact, not deficiencies at all but a normal part of airline flying. In a Part 121 operation, line crews don't have to know about customs, or, God forbid, "tracking maintenance" ( you can't operate 300-600 airplanes with the line pilots "tracking maintenance" ); they couldn't do that if they WANTED to. Nor does he control how his prior ground schools were taught. I can assure he knows about weather. And filing a flight plan ? ; come on ...

This guy has spent his lifetime learning what was required of him. That's how he made it to age 60 with his license in his pocket. If I had a lot of money to wager, I bet he can even make it through your frac training. By your own admission, he was up front about those areas with which he wasn't familiar. This is the mark of a real pro who knows that most things in flying are more important than his ego.

And, his reasons for flying beyond 60 ? That's your business because....?

Give the guy a break and a little respect for his experience; he'd do the same if you showed in HIS airline cockpit.

 

[SCT]

BaFanguy,
You are taking my statement the wrong way. I'm friends with the guy and we still talk a couple times a year. I have alot of respect for him. He has more hrs and experience then I'll ever have in my cushy little 91 job. His point and my point was flying the "line" versus flying 91 is quite a difference. The jobs have different requirements. The "flight plan" comment was his statement.

Best of luck Moose. I'm sure you are disappointed, but I truly believe things happen for a reason.

SCT

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

mooseflyer:

AirTran will interview you if you have over 500 hours of 121 PIC time or the military equivalent.

Last year at the Atlantic Air Inc conference, the Jill stated that flying as a Captain under Part 121 or military was alot harder than flying as a captain in corporate or Part 135.

iflyhigh

I just cant leave this one alone..

For someone supposedly in the know, making a statement like that is pretty low rent if you ask me..

When i was working at both of my 135 and corporate jobs, our Captains..myself included.. had to do EVERYTHING in the way of flight planning,overflight permits,customs/imagration,crew hotels,transportation, and security..

I have never seen a 121 Captain at a major work anywhere near as hard as we did when flying G-4s and CL-601s all over the stinking world..

And yes..There may be some corporate jobs out there that do everything for the guys up front..But most of them that I knew of and worked for made you earn the big bucks the hard way..

Ive done military contract work,private aircraft,corporate,135,and 121..

Knowbody has it easier than a 121 Captain at a major..

Period..

 

[Mooseflyer]

To all, thanks for the kind replys here and via PM. Yes, I'm very disappointed, but I just keep telling myself that I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, gosh-darnit, people like me! Except for the folks on the AT interview team I guess, heh heh Seriously though, I think the interviewers (who were all nice folks) have a difficult job - the other 5 interview candidates that I went through the process with all had some great experience and were collectively a he!! of a group of folks, and I wouldn't want to have to be the one to give the thumbs down to any of them - I certainly would have felt honored to work with all of them.

On the upside, now that I know the final outcome of the interview I find it easier to get my nose back to the grindstone of working on finding a career elsewhere. I'm sure it's only a matter of time for all of us looking for a job to find one. As the saying goes, "the race is not always to the swift, but to those barking up the right tree with a bird in the hand"........or something like that

 

[On Your Six]

Good luck and let us know how it pans out for you. Keep positive!

 

[Guppiedriver]

I just cant leave this one alone..

For someone supposedly in the know, making a statement like that is pretty low rent if you ask me..

When i was working at both of my 135 and corporate jobs, our Captains..myself included.. had to do EVERYTHING in the way of flight planning,overflight permits,customs/imagration,crew hotels,transportation, and security..

I have never seen a 121 Captain at a major work anywhere near as hard as we did when flying G-4s and CL-601s all over the stinking world..

And yes..There may be some corporate jobs out there that do everything for the guys up front..But most of them that I knew of and worked for made you earn the big bucks the hard way..

Ive done military contract work,private aircraft,corporate,135,and 121..

Knowbody has it easier than a 121 Captain at a major..

Period..

Amen brotha!