Regional question regarding GoJet!?!?

[theo]

As mentioned before, Hulas did what he did because he could. It worked for him. The AA scope was BS and you know it. CHQ has American feed out STL and flies 70 seat jets for Delta and United on the Shuttle and Republic ticket. So the argument doesn't hold much water.

Well dont you think the Shuttle/Republic pilots negotiated for that joint seniority list? Of course they did...you don't think Bedford just gave them the list out of the goodness of his heart do you?.....The difference is Republic/Shuttle had competent union (Teamsters) leadership who knew how to negotiate a deal ...TSA pilots were led by an incompetent group who couldnt do the same.

 

[Tarzan]

I guess you blew your own argument there with the scope argument.

Not many here will attempt to deny that TSA pilots had a chance to vote on the flying. However, you continue to look past the fact that TSA pilots were going to get hosed in the deal as well as giving Go Jet pilot furlough protection.

 

[PCL_128]

Theo, you ignore the fact that no vote should have been necessary to keep the flying. The TSA CBA was quite clear that an alter-ego carrier was in violation of the agreement and that all the flying belonged to TSA pilots. The TSA pilots didn't need to "buy" the flying, because it had already been purchased with prior negotiating capital. Hulas just got damned lucky in getting an arbitrator that completely ignored the clear language in the CBA. Your vain attempt to compare the TSA/HoJet situation to the average mainline/regional situation is absurd, and everyone can see through it.

 

[theo]

Theo, you ignore the fact that no vote should have been necessary to keep the flying. The TSA CBA was quite clear that an alter-ego carrier was in violation of the agreement and that all the flying belonged to TSA pilots. The TSA pilots didn't need to "buy" the flying, because it had already been purchased with prior negotiating capital. Hulas just got damned lucky in getting an arbitrator that completely ignored the clear language in the CBA. Your vain attempt to compare the TSA/HoJet situation to the average mainline/regional situation is absurd, and everyone can see through it.

You use the word should..when describing a fact....actually you simply wanted it to be that way ...it does not make it a fact.....as far as Hulas being "lucky" ...to find an arbitrator who sided with him..when the language ...as you say.....was clearly in the TSA pilots favor...is ridiculous....do you think any buisnessman spends millions of dollars investing in a new buisness then pin their hopes on finding the one arbitrator who will misread all of the facts and side with him?...another statement that is just plain silly. Once again you the ALPA zealot changing the facts to hide your own blunders...Skywest pilots take note of the kind of delusions ALPA brings to the table...

 

[theo]

I guess you blew your own argument there with the scope argument.

Not many here will attempt to deny that TSA pilots had a chance to vote on the flying. However, you continue to look past the fact that TSA pilots were going to get hosed in the deal as well as giving Go Jet pilot furlough protection.

Like I said...you thought the price for Gojet flying was too high....you don't have to justify to me why you didnt want it...your reasons are your own...it doesnt change the fact that the flying was yours if you voted for it and you didnt....case closed. The grudge you hold because of your decision is misplaced...take responsibility for your actions and quit blaming the results of your actions on someone else.

 

[PCL_128]

Theo, your arguments prove that you don't have the slightest clue how management behaves. I've seen countless times that management has gone for the "Hail-Mary pass" in arbitration because they feel that they have nothing to lose. If the arbitrator sides with the Association, then they just have to do what the CBA said in the first place anyway. If they get lucky with a favorable arbitrator, then they can get away with something directly in violation of the contract that they agreed to. If the company has an attorney on salaried retainer as many do, then the cost to them is nill.

In this case, if Hulas had lost the arbitration then all he would have had to do was put the list together as originally required by the agreement. There wouldn't have been any extra costs because GoJet is just a shell company that's managed by TSA Holdings, anyway.

 

[theo]

Theo, your arguments prove that you don't have the slightest clue how management behaves. I've seen countless times that management has gone for the "Hail-Mary pass" in arbitration because they feel that they have nothing to lose. If the arbitrator sides with the Association, then they just have to do what the CBA said in the first place anyway. If they get lucky with a favorable arbitrator, then they can get away with something directly in violation of the contract that they agreed to. If the company has an attorney on salaried retainer as many do, then the cost to them is nill.

In this case, if Hulas had lost the arbitration then all he would have had to do was put the list together as originally required by the agreement. There wouldn't have been any extra costs because GoJet is just a shell company that's managed by TSA Holdings, anyway.

Your good at theory...I just stick to the facts and common sense
Fact 1
TSA pilots vote to reject GoJet flying
Fact 2
Arbitrator agrees with GoJet that TSA cba is not applicable to them
Fact 3
ALPA National sends letter to TSA pilots saying you should vote to get the GoJet flying...yet local MEC won't send the letter to the pilots
Fact 4
ALPA zealots see they lost and look foolish so they devise a smear campaign to cover for their blunders

Fact 5
I gotta go to work...so I guess you get the last word...for now...bye bye

 

[PCL_128]

Your good at theory...I just stick to the facts and common sense

What you post has very little to do with common sense. Common sense would be for Hulas to comply with the intent of the language in the CBA that he agreed to. And I don't work in theory, I work from experience.

Fact 1
TSA pilots vote to reject GoJet flying

Correction: TSA pilots voted to reject a highly concessionary agreement.

ALPA National sends letter to TSA pilots saying you should vote to get the GoJet flying...yet local MEC won't send the letter to the pilots

Fact 4
ALPA zealots see they lost and look foolish so they devise a smear campaign to cover for their blunders

I certainly won't defend Dario Miranda. Not a fan. However, I'm aware of no such letter sent from National. I do know that Legal had concerns of what might happen if the arbitrator was out in left field and sided with Hulas, but Legal always has concerns in every arbitration. It's up to the reps to determine whether Legal's concerns are justified or just typical attorney skittishness.

 

[A350]

PCL:

Yes, the flying was given up....with a gun to their heads in BK. Your arguement works for me.....If there was noone to do the flying..in other words if the regional pilots would have figured out where this would lead (leadership from ALPA), perhaps the regional pilots wouldn't have found themselves in the predicament they are, which is stuck at the regionals or going to a mainline carrier with half the pay and bennies that there used to be. We won't even discuss the shattered lives, careers, and pensions of the average mainline guy who was replaced by a fellow union pilot.

It's OK. You have your career and it has been pretty good. How many years from first flight to AirTran? No furloughs? No hiccups? Not everyone has had it that way.

Again, it depends on your perspective. You call it apples and typewriters. I call it hypocritical. Spare me the comparisons. Look at the equipment the average regional flies today. Look at the routes they fly. If that ain't replacement flying, nothing is.

A350

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, the flying was given up....with a gun to their heads in BK.

Only the recent 70 and 90 seat flying was given up in bankruptcy. Mainline pilots have been giving up turboprop and 50-seat jet flying for two decades now. It goes all the way back to EAL with the turboprops, and back to the early 90s with DAL and the first CRJs. Mainline pilots have been giving flying up for many, many years without a "gun to their heads." The current crop of regionals was created long before 9/11 and the resultant downturn were even a blip on the radar screen.

It's OK. You have your career and it has been pretty good. How many years from first flight to AirTran? No furloughs? No hiccups? Not everyone has had it that way.

My career has been very good, and I'm thankful for that. Things have turned out pretty much how I had hoped (so far). But that doesn't preclude me from realizing that most guys haven't had it so good. I can easily see how the lives and careers of mainline pilots have been destroyed. Remember, I lived in Atlanta during the EAL strike and have family friends that were rEAL pilots that have never recovered from what happened there.

Look at the equipment the average regional flies today. Look at the routes they fly. If that ain't replacement flying, nothing is.

Of course it's replacement flying. I've been saying that ever since I started posting on this site. But the mainline pilots in question decided to allow those replacement pilots to take their "undesirable" flying. The TSA pilots made no such decision. Their flying was ripped away from them and taken by a bunch of scumbags that don't care about this profession or their fellow pilots. There simply is no comparison.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Your good at theory...I just stick to the facts and common sense
Fact 1
TSA pilots vote to reject GoJet flying
Fact 2
Arbitrator agrees with GoJet that TSA cba is not applicable to them
Fact 3
ALPA National sends letter to TSA pilots saying you should vote to get the GoJet flying...yet local MEC won't send the letter to the pilots
Fact 4
ALPA zealots see they lost and look foolish so they devise a smear campaign to cover for their blunders

Fact 5
I gotta go to work...so I guess you get the last word...for now...bye bye

Would that "work" happen to take place at Hojets?

 

[subin30]

Classic ALPA zealot retort.....good one!

Yeah, that was a good one. But, you still a b!tch! just keeping sucking that gayjet @&$_($! whatever makes you happy.

 

[waterski45]

You continue to ..conveniently ....overlook the fact that the TSA pilots voted down their opportunity to do the GoJet flying....

...You sir are being quite hypocritical in your position, as well as inaccurate with the facts.

theo, you seem to conveniently overlook the fact that GoJet was already running and staffed when the vote took place.

The pilots whom went to GoJet when the airline first started up did so before the TSA pilots had a chance to vote on the flying.

You, sir, are misrepresenting the facts.

 

[theo]

theo, you seem to conveniently overlook the fact that GoJet was already running and staffed when the vote took place.

The pilots whom went to GoJet when the airline first started up did so before the TSA pilots had a chance to vote on the flying.

You, sir, are misrepresenting the facts.

Whether there were pilots on property or not is irrelevant to the choice TSA pilots had....you simply had to vote for the flying and it would have been yours....how many airplanes were there then? How many GoJet crews were there then? How many airplanes do they have today? The point of these questions is to illustrate that even if there were a few pilots already there the vast majority came later....those are the slots TSA pilots could have had. You had the opportunity and you voted it down. Face it, there is no rational explanation for treating GoJet pilots any different than any one else, except it suits ALPA interests to make them look like villains in order to cover up ALPA's total mishandling of the situation, classic ALPA tactics....blow another one then blame the results on everyone else.

 

[djsk]

go jet pilots are scabs

 

[f/o(forever)]

Whether there were pilots on property or not is irrelevant to the choice TSA pilots had....you simply had to vote for the flying and it would have been yours....how many airplanes were there then? How many GoJet crews were there then? How many airplanes do they have today? The point of these questions is to illustrate that even if there were a few pilots already there the vast majority came later....those are the slots TSA pilots could have had. You had the opportunity and you voted it down. Face it, there is no rational explanation for treating GoJet pilots any different than any one else, except it suits ALPA interests to make them look like villains in order to cover up ALPA's total mishandling of the situation, classic ALPA tactics....blow another one then blame the results on everyone else.

Seems to me you are an anti-alpa zealot! I thought alpa was the largest pilot union! Where are you going to go and not be alpa? Not to many places! Now for some facts, gojets had 3-5 aircraft and @ 80 pilots when tsa managment tried to get us to sign that horiffic contract! Furlow protection for all current gojet pilots, a cut in pay as well as blasting holes in numerous other parts of our contract! Hulas was actually hoping we would sign this contract. Ever hear of an owner or ceo wanting a contract? Only and I mean ONLY if it benifits them! This contract was in response to TSA pilots pickiting at dullas, I know because I was there! United threw a fit and told hulas to do something. He did, he tried to sneak in a piece of sh!t contract! THANK GOD IT DIDN'T WORK! QOL would have gone way down at TSA, not that it's that great now! Stories of gojet pilots spending their 7th day in a hotel, two weeks in a row! Doesn't sound good to me! They can keep that crap! Alpa had nothing to do with us voting down the contract, neither did our mec! I went to one of the meetings and saw for myself the contract and voted it DOWN the first chance I had! SO PLEASE STOP TELLING US WHAT WE DID AND HOW THINGS WENT WHEN WE WERE OFFERED GOJET FLYING! YOU DO NOT KNOW ALL THE FACTS!!

 

[35off]

go jet contract

I guess they have a contract now, but apparently not so good. I was at flight safety and overheard a gojet guy saying that he flew the day before and finished at 1:45am the same day he had a recurrent check at like 1pm ish. How sad is that. TSA has travel days before and after training events. So even if you had a 3 day trip you would not have to fly, you would have an entire day before and after your recurrent check. Apparently he is not the only one. Many are flying before and the day of training events. That sucks.

 

[Foxcow]

To my knowledge, they still don't have a contract.

 

[swordfish]

I guess they have a contract now, but apparently not so good. I was at flight safety and overheard a gojet guy saying that he flew the day before and finished at 1:45am the same day he had a recurrent check at like 1pm ish. How sad is that. TSA has travel days before and after training events. So even if you had a 3 day trip you would not have to fly, you would have an entire day before and after your recurrent check. Apparently he is not the only one. Many are flying before and the day of training events. That sucks.

contract doesn't start until August 1st

 

[BoilerUP]

contract doesn't start until August 1st

What are the particulars of your newly-ratified contract?