Regional Growth

[wms]

No one ever said these new RJs were Canadairs.

According to the info we've received, the reason for this opportunity is because Bombardier agreed to a financing deal. I doubt Bombardier would finance jungle jets. Also, the great financing is an offer too good to refuse, which is the reason DAL is willing to spring for them. Few people believe DAL is in as bad a shape as they say they are. They are crying broke to get concessions, good financing, deferals on pension payments, etc. They're playing the current economic picture for all it's worth, and will for as long as they can to get all the bargains they can.

We all do the same thing, looking for distressed sales, freebies, etc. If you want a scholarship to put your kid in college, you look poor. If you want good financing to buy a house or a car, you look rich.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

This whole 'phantom' RJ thing is ONLY a way to get us to stop the contract talks. If DAL has no place for these to go until someone takes a pay cut, that would be the stupidest business strategy ever. They know exactly where they are going and are just trying to get someone to 'take the bait' and give in on pay. That way they can tell mainline - "See, everyone is giving back, you need to also". Complete smoke and mirrors. Divide and Conquer. Period. Don't let them bluff you guys, General. They want 30%? Give them 3.

 

[Anaconda]

Even if Comair got the 30 Doorknobs (without pilots? unlikely)

why is it unlikely?

 

[ERJpusher]

"Delta has asked us to bid on a new 45 aircraft contract for EMB-145 equipment. The bids are due on 12-15 and the decision is supposed to be made before 12-31."

Direct quote from Bryan Bedford's 11/21/03 weekly letter to the company.

FWIW

 

[jobear]

Quote
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A birdie told me that BiGSKY is in the running for the 30 DO328 jets. I don't think many people can undercut there payrates.
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Ok so DAL is goning to let someone who's Never flown an DO328 much less any RJ fly for them? I don't think they would do that.
However I saw JO press release stating they are entering into to talks with Delta and to be quite frank it scared the crap outta me.

Jobear
non mesa 1900 pilot

 

[porra]

What about Colgan...
I hear the upgrade there is less then one year...
If you could put up with the SH@T over there...
Remember they have no contract and I hear you have to dish out about $18K for PFT #@!%$
The reason why the upgrade is less then a year is because nobody wants to stay there, first chance they have they punch-out.

 

[surplus1]

I don't see Comair or ASA getting any of those phantom 45 jets, >>>> Comair may get those 30 Dojos

For what it's worth, which isn't much, I don't see Comair getting any of the 45 or the Do-jets either. Not because Delta doesn't have the money, but because I don't think Comair pilots will take the concessions DAL wants.

On the other hand, maybe Comair pilots should accept 20% less than Mesa pilots and then we could get ALL of Delta's DCI flying, including Skywests' and CHQ's and we could "bid" on the flying done by Pinnacle and Mesaba too. Wouldn't it be just great to do that so that everyone one foaming at the mouth for growth can be happy? It probably wouldn't work though, because Mesa, CHQ, Pinnacle and Skywest will just underbid us again so they can upgrade and fly for USAirways and United or maybe even American or Delta. I heard all those "majors" will be hiring again right after Christmas --- 2010.

We live in interesting times.

 

[46Driver]

To play Devil's Advocate, what is the reason for "Growth"?

1) One is pay - no kidding....

2) More importantly, the requirements for Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran, Fed-Ex, etc all have one thing in common - PIC time. 5000 hours of SIC in a RJ mean absolutely nothing. Until the high paying career jobs (and that is not mean to demean Comair, ACA, etc) get rid of this requirement, you are going to have F.O.'s fighting tooth and nail for PIC time to get to "the show." If you get the big boys to change their hiring policies, then you might be able to slow down the race to the bottom.

Back to my Master's paper....

 

[Looking4Traffic]

Christmas 2010

Surplus1:

I haven't laughed that hard in awhile.

I'm with you 100%. I don't think the pilot group at CMR will ever regret saying no to hotel-maid-wages. Even if the growth goes elsewhere and some other guy gets to sit in the left seat of an RJ for $45K, CMR guys can hold their heads high and say: "**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** it, we're professional pilots, we worked our asses off to get here, and our value is greater then just 'another place to cut costs.'"

If the regional industry wasn't growing, if CMR wasn't making money or if regional pilots were overpaid, then we could have a conversation with management. Since none of those things are true, we should all wait until Christmas 2010.

By then, there will be a cure for cancer, "affirmative action" will mean hiring caucasion males, and mandatory ritirement will be raised to age 90 so we'll still make a bunch of money!

 

[surplus1]

To play Devil's Advocate, what is the reason for "Growth"?

1) One is pay - no kidding....

2) More importantly, the requirements for Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran, Fed-Ex, etc all have one thing in common - PIC time. 5000 hours of SIC in a RJ mean absolutely nothing. Until the high paying career jobs (and that is not mean to demean Comair, ACA, etc) get rid of this requirement, you are going to have F.O.'s fighting tooth and nail for PIC time to get to "the show." If you get the big boys to change their hiring policies, then you might be able to slow down the race to the bottom.

Back to my Master's paper....

I hope that Master's paper is in a non-aviation field. By the time this is over (at the rate we're going) there aren't going to be any "high paying career jobs" and the low paying regional jobs will be as worthless as a gig on the Tyson Foods chicken plucking production line. The PIC we are rushing over the precipice to acquire won't get you to "the show" for the "run" will be over and the theatre closed and the only thing "playing" will be re-runs of class B "shows" in back alley theatres. What you gain won't be worth the gaining.

There seems to be little doubt that the race to the bottom will be won by all of us. The wisdom of the hour sure doesn't appear to reside in a majority of regional pilot groups and failing mega airlines. Aspiring to AirTran or Jet Blue used to be for those who "didn't quite make it", now it seems to have become the glory standard.

Fascinating.

PS. If 5000 hours in the right seat of an RJ really means nothing, how is it that 300 hours in an F-16 means so much?

 

[46Driver]

I hope that Master's paper is in a non-aviation field.

PS. If 5000 hours in the right seat of an RJ really means nothing, how is it that 300 hours in an F-16 means so much?

I don't make the rules, I am just stuck with them. The SIC jet time means little, and my helo time isn't even allowed on the application.

Yep, that Master's is certainly in a NON-aviation field and its getting very near time to use it - although helo jobs are appearing on the market and paying well - who would've thought a helo job would pay more than an airline job.....

PS: If you think getting bought out by Delta was bad, try being sold to MESA...........