Regarding UAL Troubles

[spinup]

Kid,

You want to compare avatars. Lets see, a cartoon sponge vs. a guy in tight clothing. Your right, one does have to wonder.

 

[Redtailer]

When you hire minorities before they meet the COMPETITIVE MINIMUMS of the othr applicants, you are also doing a disservice to the rest of the members of that minority group, who got their jobs by gaining the time and experience to become competitively qualified.

Let's see, the last time I was in an airline new hire class there were 3 minorities all of which had nothing under 3000hrs and 1000 turbine and at least 1 type rating. The majority of the minorities that I meet DO NOT get hired at a major airline with less than that. I said it before YOU have no right to determine who is competetive and who is not. That is the job of HR. How would you like it if a 20,000 hr pilot told you that you were not competetive?

I said before that amongst the White Male population there is a perception that all minorities get hired at a really low time. This is not the case. I had to fly my butt off just like everyone else out there and it is the same way for just about every minority out there. We just have the added weight of racism and sexism to deal with. I would gladly trade you for those issues.

Also I said ON AVERAGE minorities are hired at lower times meaning instead of getting on at 4000hrs they may get on at 3000. Not exactly non-competetive. I know there are exceptions to this, but for every exception I can point to a white male who got on at just a low of time due to his father working there or having an in with the company.

Bottom line is the general perception is way off base.

TY:

As I said earlier, you could really benefit from a Statistics class. That is not a personal attack, just an observation. You provide a subset of numbers, but without including the number of licensed, qualified female pilots, it is just gibberish.

The real reason number of minority pilots is lower is because there are less minority applicants who are competitively qualified for the position.

I have given you some of my sources and verifiable numbers, but that's too much like seeing the truth. I suppose it's easier for you to live a lie. Give me some time and I can gather that information for you. However, so far you have produced no numbers of minorities getting hired on at or below minimum times or any other FACTS. All you have done is repeated misguided perceptions. Don't throw stones in glass houses.

I know you have been brought up to believe that preferential hiring is somehow your birthright

Once again you have no idea what you are repeating the party line. I NEVER at any time or manner implied that I am OWED a job or anything else. I am not expecting it. All I want is a fair shot and without affirmative action I would not get it no matter how much time I may have. History can attest to that FACT.

Ok, enough pondering over misperceptions, here are more FACTS. Something that Ty and Charlemagne seem to be VERY short on.

#1: Most minorities are very highly qualified and competetive.

#2: Because of the increased scrutiny minorities have to be BETTER, not just as good as or competetive, but BETTER than an average White Male to have the same shot at most jobs not involving affirmative action.

#3: To all those who keep questioning my qualifications, which by the way because I am a minority I have to deal with such prejudices on a DAILY basis, I am a Black Male with a BS Double Major Airway Science/Computer Science with a 3.82 GPA, over 5000 hours and a few type ratings with over 2000 hours PIC, ATP, CFII, MEI, FE turbojet, and NEVER failed a checkride, with no incidents/accidents. Happy?

That's what it took for me to get a major airline job. Doesn't quite fit in to your little dream world now does it? The truth is that most of the minorities need those kinds of qualifications to get a job. If you choose to believe something different then so be it, but I have lived it and I know many others doing the same thing.

The oddest thing though. The ones that I hear most complaining about not being able to get hired due to "Reverse Discrimination" mostly either have a couple accidents in their past or do not have a college degree. That is just my PERSONAL experience.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

If you think 350 hours is "competetive," let me know what prescription meds you're on.

I had a female former student get hired at UAL in 1999 with 3,000 hours TT and 300 Turbine (no Turbine PIC.) That's fair?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I'm guessing she's now....out of a job?

 

[Ty Webb]

This string has just gotten more and more ridiculous. Redtailer and redtailer sympathizers can say whatever they want, but like the Iraqi Information Minister, eventually, it just becomes laughable. It would be funny if it weren;t so sad.

Anyway, I'm bowing out.

Redtailer (who I suspect is not a black male at all, but a white female, oddly enough) is just "too far gone" to be able to see anything from an objective viewpoint.

I'm outta here. You guys (and gals) have a good one.

 

[Redtailer]

DarnNearaJet:

Please refer to earlier posts. There were several people, meaning 100s, who got on at United without turbine PIC or in some cases without any turbine at all and not a minority. A good chunk of those were interns, but not all.

Whether it's fair or not that's how United hired.

All I am saying is that the minorities are unfairly singled out because most minorities do not get on at low times like people want to believe.

Ty:

If that is the best you have to offer in the way of FACTS then you really just need to be quiet.

 

[Extra300S]

As a white male who works for United I can honestly say the QUICKER you GET OVER IT the better off you will be.

It aint a fair world in Aviation or any other industry.

Valujet charged $12,000 to get a job, Airtran has HIRED many low time pilots, in fact I know one WHITE MALE who was hired with 1100TT without a Degree....USAirways has hired "Chicks" with low time as well as AMERICAN ("Friends of Cecil"comes to mind)


EVEN the World's GREATEST NAVY has done some of the same types of practices many of us complain about.

I for one ended falling for one of the Cutest Interns United has ever had, she worked her ass of....completed a 4 year Degree in 2.5 years, has worked for two regionals...I have learned that you can not judge a book by it's cover. Every airline has/will hire "Must Hires" facts of life.....GET OVER IT.

I know I did....a long time ago...

 

[Muddauber]

Affirmative Action

Affirmative action is just another term for discrimination. I saw it in the military when I served on promotion boards and our "Special Instructions" were to promote minorities based upon their percentage of the population in general, not even as a percentage of their smaller population in the service. You have to be a complete moron to think that present discrimination is somehow justified by past discrimination. Discrimination against any group at any time is equally abhorent. A meriticracy, where the most qualified individual is selected, is the only fair system.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Mud,

EXCELLENT POST. Bravo!

Ty,
Good job. Nice to agree with you once in a while.