Refused, Fired, Quit Game

[Propnose]

Good Job standing your ground! I know it sucks that you lost your job, but if you would have done that trip with no questions asked or without your questions answered, chances are great your cp would expect that from here on out.

 

[Bladestall]

Have you heard the term "Work at will?" Yes, you can be fired for failing to follow directions of your supervisors. However, what you described is "Wrongful Termination" you are covered under the OSHA Whistle Blower Protection Act. Make sure you file your complaint within 90 days of termination. You may also be covered under the FAA Whistle Blower Protection Act (30 Days to file). PM me if you have any other questions. Get an Attorney ASAP!

Good Luck dealing with this CP sounds like a real winner.

 

[AngelKing]

hmmm...i dunno.

i gotta say...if i asked for the logbooks and all that other info at 9 pm the night before an early morning flight even on an airplane that i know is on the certificate, i would probably be told to go jump off a cliff too.

...just a thought.

As much as I would like to be sympathetic to what happenend to you, I have to agree. If every pilot asked for all the logbooks, insurance papers, 135 certificates for every trip with a different a/c....well, lets just say it would be a mess. I think you fulfilled your obligation by asking the questions, any more than that, you are just being a pita. And before the flaming starts, how many of you ask for all these documents when flying a different a/c? Avbug may, but I doubt many others do. I also believe there is more to this story than just this one incident.


AK

 

[skiddriver]

I do hope you didn't really tell them you "quit". If you did, you gave up any recourse. You also gave them the ability to tell any future employers that you left without notice, something that will turn off most employers.

 

[Bad Monkey!]

I have to agree, you should have let them fire you. When you quit you gave up any recourse, i.e. unemployment checks (which your former employer pays into).

Just should have stood your ground and let him fire you and then called the FAA safety hotline in front of him (1-800-255-1111). You would be amazed at what results you would have had. Ever hear of the AIR 21 whistleblower act? Could have hired a lawyer for wrongfull termination (you may still have a case, find a lawyer, usually the consult is free). Not much help in the short term, but in the long run it would be worth it, there are many cases, like yours, that have set precedence.

Good luck.

 

[Wang Chung]

I have to agree, you should have let them fire you. When you quit you gave up any recourse, i.e. unemployment checks (which your former employer pays into).

Not always. If the Unemployment people determine that you "quit for cause" then you might be eligible for unemployment compensation. It worked for me in a past "situation."

Of course, it all depends on what the Unemployment folks find in their investigation (to include written and verbal statements that are made on the part of the employer and employee, etc) and other variables.

 

[wingnutt]

hmmmm...

• part 91 aircraft goes down
• company replaces it
• pilot asks questions
• questions answered
• pilot declines to do trip

i guess i'll be in the minority also. if i let the "scuttlebutt" around here drive my decision to take or decline a particular flight, i would have been out of a job many moons ago.

 

[stknrdr]

Thanks for standing your ground. Each time one of us does the right thing for safety and legality, it puts operators like that a little closer to being the exception instead of the rule. Even though it isn't putting food on the table right now, if you handled it tactfully you'll be more respected as as result.
I've seen the owners of companies hire people like you back as the CP when these things come out......

 

[tarp]

Thanks all for replies.

To those who are asking questions - after 2 years with this group there is a whole lot more history. Also, for 2 years, there have been no logbooks in sight for this airplane. (Not just at 9:00pm the night before.) For two years (and I'm only counting my history) the airplane has not been listed on certificate. I had been assigned the trip for over a week in advance with the "owner" aircraft. The "switch" took place at 8:00pm the night before my trip. This was not a "pop-up" assignment, the only thing that changed was maintenance taking down the "owner" aircraft - this is a story unto itself where a part came in for a long standing repair item. The job was supposed to be completed in time for my departure but maint found something else wrong and couldn't have the plane ready for a.m. launch.

As to all the recommends....it's not worth it. I resigned and am happier for doing it. I'm not going to burn a bridge or turn them in or do anything vindictive because it just brings me down to their level. I'm too old and too well travelled in life to make waves.

This is 135. My problem was that after all the wink and nod departures I've done for this company - the first time I refuse, I get canned. And I'm (we're) my/our own worse enemies for doing this stuff. And if you guys are true 135 operators you know about wink and nod - those fuel gauges look good to me (as one touches "E" permanently), that weather looks good to me for launch (100 indefinite), that GPS database OK page is always "OK" (did that say 2004?). The list goes on - I've never failed a VOR in an airplane because I was told we never fail a VOR in an airplane - do you think I will be the first pilot at the company to write up "VOR's greater than 5 degrees error"? Like I'm going to say "Altimeter error greater than 200ft, aircraft grounded".

No I fly on with duct tape and chewing gum repairs. I use a lot of "AA" batteries because cockpit lights aren't always dependable. I've flown a couple of trips with a handheld Garmin down at my left knee because my personal unit has a current database and a movng map display and I'm flying around three TFR's and seven Restricted areas on today's trip.

So, yes. There's history. And FSDO? Please. The last check airman saw something wrong at our shop and he put his hands up to the sides of his face stating "What I don't see I don't have to report." The FAA does a lot of stupid stuff but they know if they interfere with MONEY and revenue, they will get in a lot of official hot water.

So, the machine is missing a little cog today but it won't be missed and another little cog will get a call today saying "Yes, we'd like to hire you, when can you start?" And the new guy will find out that all that stuff they teach you in school about airworthiness comes down to a simple equation - Is this worth losing my certificate over?

I reached the point where the answer was "no". I really feel great this week like a stone lifted off my shoulders.

This trip, my boss - I'd give the odds at about 30% that it would have been legal, insured and my boss was telling me the truth. The trip went with some other pilot which just shows that you can't stop the machine and there is always another pilot that will take the trip. I know I'm in the middle of the group - I've told pilots joining the group to not worry about things and just fly when they see the duct tape and missing light bulbs. On the other hand, there are guys that have flown planes and their attitude has been things like "well that's why there's a hand pump...in case the electric pump doesn't work".

The resignation (or I quit) was because I'll go work for some other flying organization. I can't help myself - I can't work at a desk job ever again - I need the cockpit view. I didn't want to be fired or terminated. Then I have to explain that. I just want to move on. See if there's a chance that the next company will be nicer to me (although I've pretty much given up hope on that prospect).

Thanks again.

 

[kingairyahoo]

well...ill be the first to say you sound happier for it, and quite frankly, thats all that matters